Phills "Chirwa Island"

[smidey]

phill, can you please link to the thread from the other forum showing the ID discussion? all you state on your auction is chirwa isl, i would like to know whether they stuartgranti or jacobfreibergi.

[ryanjury]

Doesn't seem to match either photo on the profiles nor can I find a thread discussing them either?

[firenzenz]

Look lets be honest.

The trader has the delusional idea that all besides him is a clueless wonder with no idea of technology or the fish he is selling.

Under his rules 45 yrs of experience ( what he's experienced in is up for conjecture) means everything.

I met a man once with 50 yrs experience of Wagon wheel building. At least he had the sense enough to realise he was now redundant unless he adapted to a new way of thinking..

Those fish are no more Chirwa Is. than I am Axelrod himself.

[Matto]

boy do i wish you were axelrod :bounce:

[alanmin4304]

Do we realy need this discussion? Why not agree to disagree. This is just going to become another pointless and personal arguement and the minute it looks like it, it will be removed. Why not have the discussion on the other site if it complies with their rules. Personal attacks to dot comply with the rules on this site. It is hard to believe sometimes but this is actually about fishkeeping, not slandering.

[smidey]

Why not have the discussion on the other site if it complies with their rules. Personal attacks to dot comply with the rules on this site. It is hard to believe sometimes but this is actually about fishkeeping, not slandering.

can you please clarify what you mean Alan? what site & are personal attacks there allowed ?

this is about fishkeeping, i would like to know which one they have been confirmed by as the people that have done so would have experience with wild caught fish & if indeed they are something rare i would be very interested in them.

[alanmin4304]

You asked for a link to be made to the "other site" so one would assume that the discussion you wish to continue would be permitted on that site.

[ryanjury]

I am pretty sure that the "other site" he was mentioning was to cichlid forum where Phill has suggested that he got his ID from..

[kiwiplymouth]

Yes thats how I understood it too Ryan

Well i got those peacocks and you dont..The name came from malawi wild caught collectors and english forum

[A-town...]

I am pretty sure that the "other site" he was mentioning was to cichlid forum where Phill has suggested that he got his ID from..

Thats what I assumed also

[smidey]

You asked for a link to be made to the "other site" so one would assume that the discussion you wish to continue would be permitted on that site.

cool thanks

i got the impression there were multiple sites.

[livingart]

i got the impression there were multiple sites.

i don't think the word "site" is plural

[smidey]

i don't think the word "site" is plural

phill mentioned other sites including european ones with experience with wild caughts somewhere which is where i got that impression.

[ryanjury]

lol I get the impression that Phill has no real idea what he is talking about and probably wont post in this thread anyway so we will never know

[smidey]

lol I get the impression that Phill has no real idea what he is talking about and probably wont post in this thread anyway so we will never know

i am trying to find out the facts from him so i can make my decision which is why i started this thread

[firenzenz]

]

i am trying to find out the facts from him so i can make my decision which is why i started this thread

With an avatar as you do and with links to other sites including 'cichlid Forum' you have buckleys chance of getting anything from Phil as you aren't target market.

I sympathise with moderators and the choices they must make in situations such as this.

I can see the rationale in keeping posts of of personal nature under wraps.

But, It is hard though when one side of a debate has little interest in discussing 'issues' on their merit and so debate can turn into one of subjectivity where the facts are deliberately sidestepped and therefore enlightened and objective resolutions can rarely be made.

This now, and for a long, long time, has been an Effective style of discourse when fact and truth are low priorities, and comments of a personal or unrelated manner make for a great smokescreen. .

Do we realy need this discussion? Why not agree to disagree. This is just going to become another pointless and personal arguement.

In the case of this thread, I would suggest that anyone who knew anything about African cichlids in this small community would look at the forumers partaking in this thread and hopefully deduce that the comments have a greater meaning than a tawdry case of 'Character assassination'

A wonder by chance if one day if we see Neon tetras being sold on TM as 'Vivid blue Cardinals' the indigntion felt by some of the African cichlid crowd would find some context.

[alanmin4304]

Do you think your first comments on this post were warm and fuzzy remarks about a fellow member?

[firenzenz]

I call a spade a spade Alan.

Reference to 45 yrs etc, is from information garnered, and not something fabricated .

Indeed it is something continually used as I see as an conceited argument for not having to justify valid questions and issues, and generally treating the forum and its members with disdain and contempt when it suits.

And an Advertising platform at other times.

If you disagree I understand that. If we all thought the same it would be boring.

If there is no response to the question we are asking in reference to this subject- I except and respect that.

I also understand that respect is something I can't demand and have never sought to by avoiding an issue in order to be personal.

'Chicken and the Egg'?

[alanmin4304]

There are members on this site I would happily buy fish from and members I definately would not. All I am pointing out is that it is against the rules to slag other members. If you don't wish to buy, then don't. If a person doesn't wish to answer a reasonable question then don't buy. We are trying to avoid a public slanging match which actually achieves nothing. You and everyone else is entitled to their opinion but it is not dishonest to keep it to yourself or discuss it with others in an environment where it is not against the rules. Thankyou for your cooperation.

[David R]

So we're trying to avoid a public slanging match by having a public slanging match in a thread that should be about the identity of a fish.

Alan, as a moderator if you didn't like the nature of firenzenz's post then just delete it and PM him rather than dragging the whole thread off topic. As for the "do we really need this discussion"? Is FNZAS the leading authority on fishkeeping in NZ where experienced hobbyists can have a debate about the identity of a fish, or it is just some lovey-dovey feel good site for people to tell each other how much they like each others tanks?

A mature debate, complete with disagreements, is not against the rules of this site IIRC. I would have thought your job is to make sure it complies with the rules by removing the non-compliant posts, as you seem to have been doing with mine.

[kiwiplymouth]

In my opinion threads such as this are a valuable part of any forum.

They allow experienced fish keepers that have genuine concerns over the ID of any particular fish to discuss those concerns, and at the same time allowing less experienced or newer members to learn more about the fish in question and that just because any given seller has xx years of experience does not mean that the fish he/she is selling is what they say it is.

False ID's happen all the time in this hobby, it is more prevalent with African Cichlids and Catfish.

If threads like this save another member from buying something that potentially isn't what it is advertised to be and that some sellers seem to mis-id fish more than others then they have served their purpose.

[Carlos & Siran]

I hear what you're saying Kiwi but after being a member here for a year my experience tells me that threads like this just turn into an excuse for a mass stoning, where everyone will go a single member like a pack of rabid dogs, which is neither helpful or particularly kind.

[David R]

I hear what you're saying Kiwi but after being a member here for a year my experience tells me that threads like this just turn into an excuse for a mass stoning, where everyone will go a single member like a pack of rabid dogs, which is neither helpful or particularly kind.

That is why forums have moderators, to steer threads back on-topic and remove or edit posts that are in breech of the rules. Removing a thread simply because it has the potential to cause a little conflict is the easy/lazy option.

[livingart]

I hear what you're saying Kiwi but after being a member here for a year my experience tells me that threads like this just turn into an excuse for a mass stoning, where everyone will go a single member like a pack of rabid dogs, which is neither helpful or particularly kind.

+1

i like to call a spade a spade as well, a digging implement doesn't have the same ring to it

we can't force others to behave the way we want them to

and as said we can't force them to respond to our questions either

indeed having a lot of experience doesn't mean one is an expert

we have a set of rules on this board that have been put in place then adjusted as situations have arisen that needed adressing

because of the wide range of ages and personalities involved on here it is hard to please everyone

[livingart]

That is why forums have moderators, to steer threads back on-topic and remove or edit posts that are in breech of the rules. Removing a thread simply because it has the potential to cause a little conflict is the easy/lazy option.

the easy option hasn't been taken and the effort was made to steer it back on course

if it doesn't happen removal will be the last option