Corny maggots

[Carlos & Siran]

I sent my cows off to the other farm last week, and there's a wee pile off maze left, I pulled the cover off today and it's swarming with maggots, my first thought was that they'd make yummy live food for the fish but then I wondered whether the high starch levels from the maize would be OK for them, any opinions?

[Caryl]

Humans eat corn fed chickens and other animals and many say they taste better. I think the fish would enjoy them.

[Carlos & Siran]

thanks, they're weird looking maggots, they have a funny hammer looking head and long thin tails, might be fruit flies maybe?, anyway, some ate them, some didn't. hopefully the excess will get eaten soon.

[alanmin4304]

I can't think what they are called but they are frequently found in grease traps.

[Jennifer]

That description sounds just like the 'fly larvae' that are the new tinned fish food by Seachem (retails for about $17 )

Good for making fish spawn, they are 16.7% protein!

[SamH]

Good for making fish spawn, they are 16.7% protein!

Only 16.7%? :-?

[livingart]

i wouldn't feed to pencil fish

[Jennifer]

Only 16.7%? :-?

These are fresh foods so they will be somewhere around 70% moisture - the 16.7% protein reflects this. The dry weight anlaysis is probably somewhere around 45%.

Incidentally, if you are looking at a dog or cat food label, the same thing applies. Meaning that you can't compare the protein content in a dry food with that of a moist food. Apples and oranges.

[SamH]

@ Jen Learn something new and useful everyday 8)

[phoenix44]

It's all about proportions. the amount of protein does not change, but relative to the moisture contents before and after - the amount of protein appears to increase.

I suspect the bio-absorption of this protein is also proportionally higher.

[SamH]

I understand sensei

[alanmin4304]

Shihan even

[Jennifer]

Alan, I bet you are a closet martial arts person. :lol: Anyway, back on topic, now that we are all talking about this, let's calculate it to see what these babies really are...

The nutritional profile for this food is here:

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... arvae.html

So...

Formula: % dry matter = 100% minus % guaranteed moisture

Step 1: Calculate the percentage of total dry matter. This uses the formula: 100% - % guaranteed moisture = % dry matter. This is 100% - 75.7% = 24.3% total dry matter.

Step 2: We know that the whole dry weight is 24.3% and part of that is protein so we can find the percentage of protein by dry weight by using the formula PART divided by WHOLE x 100, this is 16.7% / 24.3% x 100 = 68.7% protein by dry weight.

Wow! No wonder my fish all spawned after I fed that stuff. :roll:

[Insect Direct]

great info.

Is it true that not all proteins are processed by pets as efficiently as others?

Like some dry foods say 40% but that may not even be in an available/digestible form?

[alanmin4304]

Many moons ago some of the rural abatoirs were getting rid of their feathers to the by products people and they were chopping them up and puting them in stock food to increase the protein content. In that form it is unutilizable but I understand that it can be utilized if cooked by steam at high temperatures and pressures. The answer is probably yes.

[phoenix44]

Proteins are measured on a bio absorption index, as compared to the most readily acceptable and absorb-able protein - Egg white.

So when your pet food contains say 40% protein, that may be so, but the key thing to find out is what source of protein the food uses because the body will not absorb all 100% of the available (40%) protein.

depending on the pet food, millions are spent each year in the pet industry to raise the bio absorption of good groups by animals. unfortunately it is hard to classify all pets (say dogs for eg.) into 3 categories - small, medium, large - because their metabolisms differ, and thus the nutrient absorption will differ as well.

Thus the introduction of breed specific foods, and the expansion of the three previous categories of dogs to five, now including toy and giant breed dogs.

Then there is the pitfall that all dogs, even of the same breed are not the same. much like humans, some have faster metabolisms than others and thus are susceptible to different levels of nutrient absorption.

[Insect Direct]

[Jennifer]

Is it true that not all proteins are processed by pets as efficiently as others? Like some dry foods say 40% but that may not even be in an available/digestible form?

I think metabolisable energy is what you are referring to. Metabolisable energy (ME) is a term used to describe the amount of energy available from food once the energy loss (heat and combustible gasses) from the digestive process has been subtracted. ME is an essential tool in determining the nutritional quality of a food in comparison to another but the reality is, the values are relatively similar to the other nutrient values so you really don't need to get caught up in all this if you don't want to.

For those who want to:

One way to determine energy density is to look at the known energy supplied by fat, protein, or carbohydrates (this is true for human diets as well). Scientists have used the digestibility along with the determined energy value of the nutrients to determine a constant called the Atwater Factor that is used to calculate the ME. It is not a perfect system, but it is the best we have for the moment.

Fat: Energy Value 9.4 kcal/g; Atwater factor 8.5

Protein: Energy Value 4.4 kcal/g; Atwater factor 3.5

Carbohydrate*: Energy Value 4.2 kcal/g; Atwater factor 4.2

* Carbohydrate (or Nitrogen Free Extract) is basically what remains after the moisture, protein, fat, fibre, and minerals (ash) have been removed from the food. e.g. Carbohydrate = 100% minus % moisture, % crude protein, % crude fat, % crude fibre and % ash.

NB: Since the Atwater Factor is based on an average digestibility, it will slightly underestimate the ME of foods that are highly digestible, and slightly overestimate those than have less than average digestibility.

To calculate the ME, multiply each of the dry weight nutrient percentages by its Atwater Factor and then by 10 (to correct for the %); then, add them all up to get the total number of kilocalories per kilogram of food.

For each nutrient carry out the following calculation: Nutrient (%) x Atwater factor (based on type of nutrient) x 10. Then, add together all of the individual nutrient results to get the total kcals/kg of food.

Can you tell I have been marking a lot of nutrition assignments lately? :roll:

[Carlos & Siran]

Alan, I bet you are a closet martial arts person. :lol: Anyway, back on topic, now that we are all talking about this, let's calculate it to see what these babies really are...

The nutritional profile for this food is here:

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... arvae.html

So...

Formula: % dry matter = 100% minus % guaranteed moisture

Step 1: Calculate the percentage of total dry matter. This uses the formula: 100% - % guaranteed moisture = % dry matter. This is 100% - 75.7% = 24.3% total dry matter.

Step 2: We know that the whole dry weight is 24.3% and part of that is protein so we can find the percentage of protein by dry weight by using the formula PART divided by WHOLE x 100, this is 16.7% / 24.3% x 100 = 68.7% protein by dry weight.

Wow! No wonder my fish all spawned after I fed that stuff. :roll:

Nice, I'll phone you when I need to work out the dry matter and MJ/ME of my maize stack when it comes in