Sump Questions

[Brennos]

Question 1, in a tropical freshwater system, is there much merit in having a sump. I have upgraded the standard trickle filter to a CF1200 canister, but I think a sump might be a good upgrade also, then I can move the heater, the uv filter, and maybe the co2 into the sump, giving me a much cleaner looking tank. My questions are, how do i get water into the sump, and out of the sump.

At a guess, i need a overflow drilled into my tank, and then a return pump from the sump to the tank, do i leave my canister plumbed in the main tank, or can i get that into the sump too? The dimensions of the sump would be approx 50H x 22.5W x 22.5D cm

If this is a waste of time, then ill forget it, at this stage its something id like to try if it is going to give me a healthier tank, and a cleaner looking tank.,

[David R]

I take it this is a planted tank because you're running CO2? In that case forget the sump, the extra aeration is not what you want.

[henward]

i dont know much bout planted.

but canisters keep the water clearer in my experience. the canisters are very tightly packed so its better for clarity.

but a trickle and sump set up is definately better for high volume waste and filtration.

the amount of filtration you get with a trickle set up is way more than a canister.

even an fx5 cannot contain as much media.

my trickle tower thingee has so much bio filtration that i would need multiple fx5 to match it. i do in fact have 2x fx5 in 2x 1200litres sharing a sump...for the sole reason that i feed dramatic amounts of food.

[David R]

i dont know much bout planted.

Neither do I, but I do know that if you're adding CO2 the last thing you want to be doing is adding a sump that is going to aerate the water and add more oxygen. It may be possible to set it up so there is minimal disturbance, but IMO its not worth the hassle for a planted tank.

[suphew]

How much the sump will aerate the water depends completely on how you set up the sump. The biological parts of your filter well be less affective than they would be if you set up a trickle filter but will still offer far more volume of media than any canister ever will.

Really there are 3 reason's that you would add a sump,

1) increasing filtration, for some reason the current trend is all about LPH through a filter(??!) I checked a couple of sites to find out how much media an FX5 holds and none of them have it listed. Biological/bacteria need surface area, the more media space you have the better you filtration must be. You can not beat a sump for this.

2) removing equipment from the display, speaks for itself really

3) Increasing water volume, great way to have a busy over stocked looking tank, with out having an over stocked tank

Running a sump is very easy, marine tanks have been doing it for years, the cost are, the sump, a pump, and some plumbing, should be very easy to do for less than the cost of an FX5 and far more affective.

[henward]

also because having a sump and tubes and pumps and pipes looks awesome!

it makes your set up look like a lab.

just be careful, that if people see it from the outside in, they m ay think you are manufacturing the 'P'.

if you know what im sayin.

or in my case, i have had someone ask if i have hydroponics in my garage due to the water seeping out ........... could be abit of a hassle if cops get the wrong idea:D

[Brennos]

2) removing equipment from the display, speaks for itself really

3) Increasing water volume, great way to have a busy over stocked looking tank, with out having an over stocked tank

Running a sump is very easy, marine tanks have been doing it for years, the cost are, the sump, a pump, and some plumbing, should be very easy to do for less than the cost of an FX5 and far more affective.

This is why I want to run a sump. I have two tanks, I am possibly going to remove the c02 injection from he main tank (the one for i want to add a sump to) into the nano. I really want to remove the gear from the tank, and add another 7-10 liters of water to the system. I knocked up a paint image of what I am wanting to do, what do you reakon.

Or should i pipe the canister spray bar into the sump? and add a power head to the main tank?

[Brennos]

Would something like http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 262677.htm work as a sump pump?

Not this exact pump, but something similar?, how do I go about getting the overflow, do I need to drill, or is there another way?

[si_sphinx]

yea that would work, you could also use an overflow box that siphons however it isn't as reliable as a drilled overflow

[Brennos]

Hmm, if i drill, and later on decide to remove sump, can I silicon over a glass panel?

[Ira]

Hmm, if i drill, and later on decide to remove sump, can I silicon over a glass panel?

Yep

[Brennos]

So it looks like I might be able to do this, I need a sump pump, an over flow drilled in, appropriate piping, and obviously a sump making. Anything else I should take into account, before I commit to this idea?

[SamH]

The only reason I haven't drilled any of my tanks is the risk of breaking glass and lack of correct equipment.

[Brennos]

I knocked this up in paint, I hope it makes sense, what do you guys think? I know it's an odd size (taller than wider??) but that's how the cabinet is shaped

p.s the shape of the drawings are not to scale, it's late, and I can't be arsed re doing it right now.

Higher res version here: http://iforce.co.nz/i/gvpx54eq.png

[suphew]

Anything else I should take into account, before I commit to this idea?

Media for your sump.

Regards the canister filter, why do still want to run it? It will give you so little filtration compared to the sump, I really wouldn't think it was worth the hassle. I guess if you set up a lot of temporary tanks and want a cycled running filter to be able to put on them its a good idea.

[livingart]

how are you going to stack your media or set up baffles?

will it be easy enough to get to the pump if you have problems?

[livingart]

i have been using this for the last year on my community tank

not ideal but i don't have enough room under stand for a proper sump

the PVC pipe is drilled full of holes and has ring baffles inside to disperse the flow

media is bio balls, noodles and pumice

yes it needs a clean

[Brennos]

how are you going to stack your media or set up baffles?

will it be easy enough to get to the pump if you have problems?

Hadn't thought about the media to be quite honest. To get to the pump, I would have to slide the sump out of the cabinet, which wouldn't be too hard, unless i get an external sump.

[livingart]

you will need to make sure you have enough room to get your pump in and out

maybe use pond plant holders for baskets for media or payless plastics may have square shaped sieve type boxes

square plate on top drilled with holes wll help disperse water over dry part of filter media

filterwool on top to take out big particulate

you will need to make sure you have enough room in sump to take in any excess water if pump is stopped

[Brennos]

ok, so if i put a divider in the tank, with a gap at the bottom, and get some baskets/make some baskets, i am good to go? Only thing is, how do i regulate the flow of the pump, or do i not need to? I looked at a 600l p/h pump at HFF for about $90.

EDIT: Oh and thanks alot LA for putting in the time to draw that for me, much appreciated, as I don't have to research as much, can I add some carbon and some sort of PH buffer to that somewhere? We are on tank water, and I understand it has a fairly low hardness.

[suphew]

You don't need to regulate the flow of your pump.

A 600lph pump is unlikely to be strong enough, the 600lph is at zero head, by the time you pump the water back up to your tank it likely there will be no flow. The quick and easy way to work out how strong your pump needs to be is to measure the distance from the upper level of the water in your sump to the upper level of the water in the display. This is your static head height, add half again this allows for plumbing elbows, taps, etc that all slow the flow. This number gives you total head height, most good pumps will have a flow curve printed on the side of the bow, find your head height and you'll see what sort of flow you will get.

Livingart will correct me if I'm wrong (I work more with marine sumps) but I think you should be aiming for about 3-5 times the volume of your display through your sump. So for example for a 200liter tank you would be looking for about 600-1000lph use your total head height calculation to find a pump that will deliver that much flow to your tank.

HTH