matthewY Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I figure it could be time to try again.... Have read the "breed 500 cardinals" article a while back when I first tried. Although I didnt follow to the letter, did the best I could with what I had. Failed :-( Now i have some more time, I'd liek to give it ago again. The article indicates low conductivity, So wondering if it is ok / safe for fish to use distilled water only when doing water changes to slowly adjust cardinals to condition required. Also, if the tank was 100% distilled water, what does this mean? will it stress the fish? would ph be ok? does the conductivity become 0ppm? would it have enough trace elements in it? would amazon extracts help? Going to try in a 338 tank with a large breading net from mid way up... blacken 3/4 of the tank, line base with peat and see... possibly wishful thinking but I fiugure if its not going to harm the fish, I could just leave them there for a while and hope good stuff strats to happen... thoughts? too wishful? wasting time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1CK Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 distilled water means a very low conentration of minerals/anything. PH of it should be neutral. so its safe to use for WCes. and it doesn't hurt to try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 100% distilled water? fish wont survive. none of the electro-chemical systems would work, so osmoregulation wont work. AKA dead fishy in theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 dead cardinals dont breed :-( so assuming I have to use distilled water to get the hardness / tds / ph down, would I want to mix it with normal water, say 80% distilled and 20% normal tap water or would I want to add extra stuff into it? no idea what that extra stuff is but I do have amazone extract somewhere.....???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 yeap, you have the tds part of the equation right. distilled water and de ionised water needs "stuff" in it to support fish life. you can use it to reduce tds, and soften water but experiment first and see what happens. the pH fluctuations would be something to note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Heres just some ideas for you to consider to make things.... not simpler or easier... more successful? easier when you get to breeding maybe? anyhow: If you were to do it, I'd start with a 50-50 mix of distilled and tap water, or try varying mixes and test them out, conductivity should be simple with a multimeter. once you strike a mix you think will work, get a large container or 2 or 3, and make up the water all at once so you have all the same ratios, GH/KH in each, and same osmotics/etc. Use these for your water changes, should reduce any osmotic shock. Use a bare bottom, maybe some marbles to spawn on or something, thin layer of java moss? Your going to be reducing the KH/GH of your water considerably, and that will lead to pH swings if your not careful with what is in the tank. Driftwood, peat, calcareous substrates, will all cause it to swing, so make up a water mix, then test the water in the tank exactly how you would have it setup for breeding and see what pH fluctuations you get, before you even add the fish. Test pH of the containers. Do a water change like you would normally and test again. Your going to want to maybe even have stockings of peat or limestone in the water containers to get the pH's between breeding tank and teh water-change water similiar at least. Alot of stuffing around and empty tanks, but once you know how things are going to react, you can better judge other things to get a perfect breeding. Its all about removing variables where you can. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Maybe I should send you some water. My cardinals spawn all the time in ordinary untreated Christchurch tapwater! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Wouldn't rain water be fine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver21 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 multimeter wont work. as i think there wont be enough voltage between the probes and the distance will vary alot between the probes so your readings (if you get one) will be ramdem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 But you can use your multimeter to help you make this http://www.octiva.net/projects/ppm/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I know people in Christchurch that have bred heaps of them in tap water so the water is not that important. They are not as productive as neons and not as easy to breed so most people commercialy would rather breed thousands of neons and sell them for a buck each. As with neons you want youngish breeders and bred in NZ if possible. The right food is important as well to get them conditioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Makes me wish I was living in christchurch.... Does anyone have detaisl on water parameters down there? Maybe someone who has had luck wont mind selling afew of the offsprings? I keep hearing that theres a good chance the petshop ones are imported and infertile.... (I blame my bad luck on that :-) ). Maybe the lower hutt water would help? I hear its pretrty good. Once tried with rain water but found that I could never get enough rain water to do good water chnages, too unpredictable so Decided distilled would give me more control over when I want to do water changes. I have TDS and PH meters at home but found them hard to read, they keep jumping, water which I would expect would be 7ish ph ends up measuring at 8 or so and it would change slowly, ie: look 2 mins later and it would have dropped to 7.8 etc.... not sure whats going on there. TDS meter does the same so I dont depend on readings, only depend on the "realitive" readings from one measurment to the next... helps when you kbnow ph is roughly what it was before you did something even if you dont know what the ph truly is.... I'll start off with slowly getting the tank water to 50/50 mix and see how it goes. Tank doesnt have driftwood in it but does have the floor covered in peat (took from article???) so may effect ph in 50/50 mix? Full on envy for thosee who have a school of 50+ cardinals in a large tank (+ the unlimited supply via breading) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Not sure of Christchurch water parameters but think hardness is around 45ppm and pH would be slightly alkaline like most water supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Good luck with your efforts. I had my rummynose breed 15 months ago (first noticed it when I saw a fry about 1cm long). Only 1 fry was sighted and is still growing. I went on holiday and while water changes were done the tank was not vacuumed for 11 days therefore there was quite a bit of dead leaf mulch on the bottom of the tank. The lights were also not turned on for this time. About a month after I returned home I saw the young one. I have been told these are also hard to breed so maybe the idea of leaving them be as much as possible is the best. After all they don't have people watching over them in the wild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 PH at my house tends to be right around 7 or a little above. I have bogwood in the tank that has a big mass of java fern on it. The tank is 40L and has a big filter with a good deal of flow. It is near a window but is in a dark corner with little traffic. The lights are on for 8 hours a day and the fish get a range of fresh frozen, live and flake food. I do water changes every fortnight and vacuum monthly - just about every time I vacuum up fry (what are left of them anyway). I haven't raised any though, seems too hard sonce I don't have a good system to give a good return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthewY Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 The lights are on for 8 hours a day and the fish get a range of fresh frozen, live and flake food Assuming you are talking about tank light or house light? I would have assumed from readings you require very dark (pitch black almost) enviroment? maybe I'm spending to much time tryign achieve that and not enough on other factors..... If you ever find u have afew small ones worth saving but dont want to "care" for thema s such, feel free to ship my way :-) I think there must be some truth to people saying pet shop ones can be infurtile.... if they bread so easily without even the intention of breedign them down in christchurch but yet a struggle everywhere else... What temps teh tanka nd what kind of live food do you feed them? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Not sure about the cardinals but neons produce mainly females at 24 deg C and more males at 20-21 deg C. They feed live lumbriculus variegatus as whiteqworms are too fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Assuming you are talking about tank light or house light? I would have assumed from readings you require very dark (pitch black almost) enviroment? What temps teh tanka nd what kind of live food do you feed them? Yes, the tank lights are on 7.5 hours a day. The mass of java moss is attached to a branch that goes up to the top of the tank and the moss is really wild so there is a lot of shade in the tank at the best of times. The rest of the day the tank is pretty dark. It sits around 23 degrees most of the time. I feed live microworms recently, and whiteworms once a week but in the past I was just supplementing the wide variety of frozen foods with hatched brine shrimp. I think my fish are just random. Don't know why they are happy in there. :roll: I usually find one or two fry win there when I vacuum so not sure if you would want just one or two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.