jude Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I have purchased 2 fluval 204's for the L shaped tank. They were on special and it states they are for tanks up to 200L. As the tank has been downsized slightly, it will only hold 400 litres. 404's are supposed to be for tanks up to 400L so having two of them seemed like overkill. I figure I can always beef up the filtration later but right now I just need enough filtration to get started - and I will lightly stock at first. The latest question is - the hoses supplied will be too short to put them where I want them. I had thought of having both intake tubes at the centre of the L and returning the water to the tank at both ends. Can you get hosing to extend these? Is there a maximum length before efficiency is lost? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Just go to mitre 10 and buy a bunch of the correct sized hose. Or is it the ribbed stuff? I think a single 404 isn't enough for a 400L tank. two 404s would be better for that size. No such thing as overfiltration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted November 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Its the ribbed stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I think you can buy longer hoses, or extensions. The shorter the hoses the better though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Beware that the rated tank size can be misleading, as I understand it it's calculated based on turning over 2-3 times the tank volume per hour, the problem arises because the flow rate ie liters per hour (LPH) of the pump is stated with no head, no fittings, no crap in the sponge(!) etc etc. Putting the filter a couple of feet below the tank (as most of us do) and pushing the water around bends, taps, and outlets etc will easily half the actual LPH. Therefore a pump rated for 200L may only be good for 100L. Of course you have to take into account bioload, and other filters (plants, etc). My suggestion would be to go with what you have BUT allow for extra filters so you can easily add them later, ie allow extra power plugs, holes, space etc. To answer question re hoses, as soon as you attach a hose efficiency is lost, the questions how much can you lose before needing more filters (see above). three things affect the efficiency, 1)frictional lose in the hoses (smooth rigid best, flexible ribed worse), 2) Number of fittings (bends, taps, joins etc) put in as few as posible. 3) Water head, this is the biggie for example a quality ehiem 1250 pump will deliver 317gallon per hour at no head ie straight out of the pump, pumping up 5 feet will only deliver 140GPH! and this doesn't include loses from 1 and 2. So put your filter as close to the tank hight as practical, make the hoses as short as possible, and use as few extra fittings as you can. Then you can only try it out, test the water and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 What you could also do as far as filtration. Go with the 204s, but throw a couple powerheads in the tank for circulation. Or do what I did with my tall tank, get a hardcore airpump and a couple big airstones. Massive amouns of current and airation that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted November 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Thanks everyone. I know the 204's might not be big enough forever but at least they will get me started. I like Ira's idea of an airpump and airstones - although I would have to balance that against getting the plants growing well. I should be able to beef up the filtration once the budget recovers from the initial expenditure and as the tank gets more fish in it. I plan to be patient this time and only add them slowly :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Won't having the water returned to the tank from each end cause a bit of turbulence at the centre of the tank where you are going to put the pump intakes. I have no idea and am just asking as I have only ever worked with rectangle tanks. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted November 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 I don't know either - haven't done this before ........ LOL I could make a whirlpool - that would be an interesting effect! Just thought it would make sense to return the water to tank as far away as possible or the filter would be sucking in the clean water rather than the dirty stuff. :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Will be interesting to see what the experts say and whether or not you would get to strong a current by putting the return at one end and the intake at the other, create a flow throught the tank completely. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 The ribbed hose looks like electrical conduit. I'm not exactly sure if it is the same stuff but if it is you can get it from any electrical wholesaler. It's not expensive at about $4.00/m retail. There are a range of sizes available. Best to take the hose you have into the wholesaler and check if it is the same stuff... The more flow in the tank the better as long as there are some still zones where the fish can rest. All the muck will settle in the still zones too, making it easier to clean. The filters will more effectively get all the suspended muck out too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 FYI Animates have 204's for $149 at the mo. HOwever I have found in the past the Hutt pet shop normal filter price is cheaper than animates sale price! Regarding the flow, I have 2 X 204 running in a 4 foot approx 200L tank, inlet's at one end outlets at the other, and can't really even see the water flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 ...............The latest question is - the hoses supplied will be too short to put them where I want them. I had thought of having both intake tubes at the centre of the L and returning the water to the tank at both ends. Can you get hosing to extend these? Is there a maximum length before efficiency is lost? Cheers I would just buy some flexible hosing from a hardware shop. I would be very suprised if you lost water flow by adding a couple of feet of hosing. Canisters have a push/pull arrangement, ie the intake is from the main body of water, (unlike a sump arrangement where the pump has and independant boy of water which it is pumping into the main body of water) and as such has a head of water (equal to that of the water level in the tank) which pressurises the cannister and i turn helps the pump pump. If your in doubt, consider the fact that when you prime a cannister, it will fill the outlet hose up to the level of the tank water (that does not happen in a sump) Of course, if your using a spray bar along the surface and the intake near the bottom, I don't think there will be a problem of drawing in "cleaned" water from the outlet. This has always being my understanding, but it seems contradicting to some of the advice posted, so proceed with caution, I may have no idea of what I'm talking about. :roll: As far as having enough filtration, it is highly dependent on your bio-load. 2 x 204 could be overkill, or could be woefully underpowered. What sort of tank are you setting up, number of livestock your keeping? Cheers Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted November 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Hi Andrew Andrew, don't worry about not knowing what you are talking about - I do that all the time. Its just important to sound like you know :lol: :lol: :lol: - just kidding. Thanks for all the advice everyone. I thought, like Andrew, that you wouldn't lose much flow but I guess time will tell. As far as stocking the tank goes, I'm not sure yet. I will be doing it very slowly because I want to get the plants established first. And I intend to beef up the filtration later as its needed. This is really just a starting point and I can use the 204's on other tanks later. I have to keep the initial costs down as much as possible but can add other stuff as I go ............. I hope!!!! Cheers Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 As with answers by andrew I agree that you will not lose much flow no matter how much hose you have. the only lose of flow I believe will occur in the cannister itself. If for instance you add in 2 lots of ceramic media and the sponges then you are going to have a much reduced flow than if you were to load up the canisters with only bioballs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Sorry guys the lenth of hose does make a big difference, if for no other reason that the longer the hose the more algae etc you have growing in it slowing down the water. Sugest that if you have had a filter running for a while you run a cleaner (bottle brush thingie) thu the hoses and see how much gunk comes out and how much better they work! And thats with out taking into account the resistance of the hose and bends etc. But Jude there are so many things that affect your filters performance there is no way of knowing if you have enough without setting it up and running it for a while. Let I said before set it up and see how you go, just allow space to upgrade later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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