Varanophile Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Just had a gander at the list of reptile species allowed to be imported into NZ, and the list of known species in containment in NZ (kept by zoos). Written by the HON. David Carter. Interesting...Yellow Headed Tortoises (Indotestudo elongata) aka Peach Faced are on the list of species allowed to be imported. MAF may argue they are containment only...however they are already known to be in public hands in Palmy North and are listed on a certain website. Surely this means someone can legally import these tortoises into NZ without the usual pile of paperwork....should be easy. Thoughts?? BTW- Regarding the table : "Exotic Reptiles held in Containment Facilities in New Zealand" There are at least half a dozen species missing from this list...and that is from a quick glance, and there are some that should not be on the list. What the hell are MAF doing...this list looks like it compiled by a bunch of dyslexic idiots. They can't even spell tortoise properly. Tax dollars at work:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 They are still in palmy as far as i know. I think MAF operates independently with its own set of rules, so the paper work involved would be almost the same. I know the headache that will be involved is definitely comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 They are still in palmy as far as i know. I think MAF operates independently with its own set of rules, so the paper work involved would be almost the same. I know the headache that will be involved is definitely comparable. I disagree. You can import these without paying for a Health Standard to be created. You need to pay for the tortoises, the health check at point of origin, the air freight cost, and the quarantine this end. http://www.monkeyfrog.com/available_tortoisespage.html On what grounds could they deny you? Other tortoises are in zoos and private hands, as are these. Only difference is that you are LEGALLY allowed to import these already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 are there any records of legal imports?I know they are here and have seen them in private collections.I also know how and when they got here.There were three `legal` igguannas imported by the napier aquarium and did not workout well trying to piggy back under the same permit?I would hazzard a guess it would end up in a similar way.Also I seem to remember seeing these on the cities list??which would hamstring any imports? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 as soon as MAF see that they have allowed such a IHS to still be valid they will just say its out of date and will go under review... thats the last we will see of the list because of some disease they are known to carry... CITES isnt a issue, all you need is a export/import permit from CITES and your good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 2mins of research and they are a very high carrier of pathogens in the import/export process... Thats all MAF need to kan it... It would be nice, because in turn more IHS can be created for more reptiles of this one!!! If someone can import this turtle legall i would be over the moon because we could then all submit IHS under the act of this one, because of similar process... reptiles would once again be allowed to be imported... Fat chance... but it would be so cool!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 are there any records of legal imports?I know they are here and have seen them in private collections.I also know how and when they got here.There were three `legal` igguannas imported by the napier aquarium and did not workout well trying to piggy back under the same permit?I would hazzard a guess it would end up in a similar way.Also I seem to remember seeing these on the cities list??which would hamstring any imports? Apparently so...this is from TradeMe (Moderator this link is here for discussion not to promote a sale) http://www.trademe.co.nz/Home-living/Pe ... 233469.htm "Hi what breeds can you legally keep in nz? thanks Matthew andrewc7 (202 ) 8:41 am, Fri 8 Jan The number is too long for me to remember butI have copies of import papers for Greek spur thighed, African spur sided, Hermanns, Elongated and several American species. There are more listed but I haven't gone through the papers for a long time. This means they were all legally imported into NZ prior to 1990 10:39 am, Fri 8 Jan " Elongated is Peach Faced is Yellow Headed Tortoise. The difference between these and Iguana iguana is that the iguana were never known to be legally in private/public hands....Peach faced (Indotestudo elongata ) are KNOWN to be in public hands in Palmy North. Also, iguanas are not one of 5 species allowed to be imported into N.Z as per the MINISTER's comments...the 5 being Alligators (not known in private hands), Salt Water Crocs (not known in private hands), Star Tortoises (not known in private hands), Madagascan Giant Day Geckos (In private hands but not officially recognized as such)...and finally Indotestudo elongata (known to be in private hands) Yes, these are CITES, but a CITES permit can be obtained easily as per what Charlie says. It is a piece of cake if they are from a licensed/recognized breeder. The only way the importation could be stopped is if MAF changed the law. If someone want to investigate then I am happy to put up some cash if the paperwork is approved. I'm not in NZ just now. THANKS TO DAVID ON THIS FORUM FOR MAKING THIS INFO AVAILABLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 surprised to see you using that `list` for want of a better word?to push your barrow??? I would have to question the inclusion of african spursided??other than that you know as well as I how much you can believe what any individual may or may not have said?I know of a star tortoise that was in private hands prior to that date as well,can prove it too,they still have it`s shell. This list is probably a similar concoction that went around the bird world a few years ago,trying to find out what was here and had been for whatever reason prior to some fresh legislation going through.Things like himalayan monals for example were here in private hands and being sold openly were put on that list and therefore not outlawed like the igguanas. What ever happens I can`t see any changes on the horizon within my lifetime?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 surprised to see you using that `list` for want of a better word?to push your barrow??? I would have to question the inclusion of african spursided??other than that you know as well as I how much you can believe what any individual may or may not have said?I know of a star tortoise that was in private hands prior to that date as well,can prove it too,they still have it`s shell. This list is probably a similar concoction that went around the bird world a few years ago,trying to find out what was here and had been for whatever reason prior to some fresh legislation going through.Things like himalayan monals for example were here in private hands and being sold openly were put on that list and therefore not outlawed like the igguanas. What ever happens I can`t see any changes on the horizon within my lifetime?? 'The list' is a signed letter from The Minister in charge of ERMA/MAF/DOC.....NOT the weird list that was floating around a few years back with native geckos and capybaras on it. It is good if the TM person has the permits, but not necessary. The point is MAF knows that the TM person has the tortoises, and she is not a containment facility. Your point about Star Torts is interesting, but they are not one of 5 allowed in. Honestly...who knows why David Carter says that 5 species can be imported and all the others can't. Maf's logic is flawed and the Minister is acting on bad advice, but nevertheless there it is in writing...PM David R for a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted January 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 Testudo graeca ibera is Greek Spur Thighed Geochelone sulcata is the African Spur Thighed...I think she just got a bit mixed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky2 Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I remember being offered yellow head or elongata tortises in 95? and also saw an ad in t&e about mid 96 for the same thing in thought bugger that!tropical species...i should have kept the paper would of been proof of them being pre 97 ....dagnamit....... Regardless of weather it is containment facility or not,without a health standard your pretty much screwed as far as imports go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 without a health standard your pretty much screwed as far as imports go yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 and there is no way a IHS will be created for reptiles... Mayby zoo's could get them developed but for containment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonz Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 IHS as per Website. It states they MUST come from Containment, but NOT too containment... http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/files/im ... ic.aus.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reptilez Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 thats me Matthew on trade me with my username being andrewc7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 IHS as per Website. It states they MUST come from Containment, but NOT too containment... http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/files/im ... ic.aus.pdf Pursuant to section 22 of the Biosecurity Act 1993, this document is the import health standard for the importation from Australia of the star tortoise (Geochelone elegans) and the yellow-headed tortoise (Indotestudo elongata) into New Zealand for zoos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reptilez Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I find star tortoises look the coolest WBU?? Pursuant to section 22 of the Biosecurity Act 1993, this document is the import health standard for the importation from Australia of the star tortoise (Geochelone elegans) and the yellow-headed tortoise (Indotestudo elongata) into New Zealand for zoos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonz Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 The header yes states for zoos, but in the IHS it does not state for containment... only they must come from a registered facility in AUST. And post import must reside in a low level transitional facility for Qtine period. Yet again a loop hole in there ever growing level of incompetence to complete their job correctly. Simply pointing out. The media would have a field day on all the info that has been gathered by several different individuals. Conflicting emails from Erma and MAF about certain topics. Certainly drives anyone to drink. If they can't even comunicate between their own govt departments how are we to ever expect them to work with the public to a result which will benifit not only us, but also them! I am sure I just saw a pig fly past the window with our tax money in its mouth.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 If the header states for zoos you can rest assured the following message is about zoos no matter how hard you might wish that it was not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 thats the other thing,there are sweet bugger all tortoises in austrailian zoos and even less in private hands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonz Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Not a wish. Simply pointing out the error within the conditions. A zoo could import them and then move them into the private sector as the IHS does not state they must reside within a containment facility. And they are listed as a containment species when they are not..... Bit like leopard tortoises which I have email confirmation from Erma stating that under no reason are they containment species as they are already within private hands. I have this in email confirmation twice from Erma. Seems as per normal MAF and ERMA are doing a better job at working against each other rather than dealing with the important issues. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 but then what NZ zoo licenced premises are going to go against MAF to import some reptiles for us??? i cantt hink of any? unless a private member gets his/her zoo licence then i bet Auckland zoo are not going to import? On satisfactory completion of the post arrival quarantine period, and on the written confirmation from the Director Animal Biosecurity, the supervising Veterinary Officer will authorise the animal to be moved from the transitional facility to a permanent containment facility at the importing zoo. The animal and its offspring must remain permanently in a registered zoo, and can only be transferred to another zoo with the prior permission of the Director Animal Biosecurity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 the ihs was probably done to allow exchange of those torts for a breeding program between australasian zoos even a private member with a zoo licence cannot let animals out of a containment facility without the correct paperwork ie: the development of an ihs for general release you pays your money you take your chances it is black and white ihs for containment or ihs for public release no ihs no release it doesn't matter if they are in public hands already or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 what living art said on the money, they can be imported into zoo's but not released. Even if i went to MAF with a tortoise and said look i have one already? (I dont have one) (and no i wouldnt be that stupid to show MAF either) but again allot of our reptiles are like this Leopard Geckos Bearded Dragons Water Dragons??? Red Eared Sliders??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 There are other levals of restriction as well and it applies to all organisms---reptiles, birds, fish, plants etc. An organism may be approved for being in private hands by Erma and Maf but the Regional Council can decide they are a problem in their region and impose restrictions e.g. Bluies in Auckland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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