Insect Direct Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 noticed a 2-3y/o bd yesterday morning sitting next to a red/maroon looking stool. Instantly thought that was weird as i havent fed anything red lately. Noticed she was dehydrated (eyes sunken in) so gave a good bath but couldnt interest her in food. Woke up this morning and she wasnt looking any better. Went out just now and shes gone to sleep Gutted cos she was in her prime and always was a good eater and was coming of age nicely. Second clutch laid just over a week ago then this in the last 2 days...........im gutted. anyway would be interested to know if anyone has an idea of what may of caused this? liver failure maybe? After her eggs last sunday she had a bath and has been eating well since, just doesnt make sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 sorry for your loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Sorry for your lose Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Generally bright red is blood in teh rectum ( yes damn near killed them) and the darker the red the higher up the bowel the bleed if that is what you are thinking. Maybe she perforated/ruptured something during her laying? Certainly an internal bleed of some sort would aslo be an indication if she was dehydrated as well Navarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Maybe she perforated/ruptured something during her laying? My moneys on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 yes agree with that, damage in there somewhere black stools can signify internal bleeding as well as nav said red is usually rectum bleeding and the darker the colour the older the bleed any discolouration on eggs laid? condolences mincie did you do an autopsy, not nice but the knowledge gained can be invaluable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 thank you all um i did an autopsy (couldnt help myself i hate been left with questions unanswered) i think Navarre has hit the nail on the head seems a blockag/rupture. Intestine seems blocked about mid way, dark stuff fills it then nothing for bottom half if that makes sense. 15+ eggs developing and to my untrained eye a otherwise a healthy looking specimen. her first clutch around 5 wks ago was just laid on artificial grass (i didnt realise she was holding) eggs shriveled etc. about 10 days ago i put her in tank with lay area and she dug a perfect cave and deposited her eggs buried them (i was blown away at the natural intincts) all within an hour. Which compared to some beardies which muck around for days then lay i thought she was a pretty good girl lol eggs dug up and looking good to the day. She did look rather skinny after the last lot but thats to be expected to some extent. She ate well for the first 3-4days after laying then eased off, bt was only yesterday i noticed the stool and obvious dehydration. Seemed to come on so fast. no marks on eggs laid either, at a loss but seems something got ruptured in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 p.s the stool was like beetroot colour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 really sorry to hear your news Mince. My thoughts are with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Intestine seems blocked about mid way, dark stuff fills it then nothing for bottom half if that makes sense. 15+ eggs developing what was in the blockage material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 could have ruptured an egg inside??peritonitis here today gone tommorrow.Have seen this a few times in birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 i didnt open that up, as i should have come to think about it. sort of all sunk in and i didnt feel like i new enough to go any further :oops: appeared like bubbly dark stuf...maybe blood? it would move (saw bubbles) if i moved/squeezed the intestine but not past about half to 3/4 of the way down, didnt appear like there was anything blocking it just nothing would past that point/down to the exit. shes in the freezer chlling...i had enough for one day, never thought id be so gutted about a lizard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 could have ruptured an egg inside??peritonitis here today gone tommorrow.Have seen this a few times in birds. possibly, i didnt see anything like a boken egg in there though? and last eggs were laid about 10days ago and more forming in her seemed all ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 gutted about a lizard??? good one mincie?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 and for the lizard just a shame to grow something up for a couple of years then it die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 very clever repto harder when someone takes them off you and destroys them feel for you mincie was the stool that was passed hard ie possible impaction that damaged intestinal wall, causing bleeding, coagulation and blockage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broms2 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 sorry to hear this mincie, its allways gutting to lose one, especially out of the blue like this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogod Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 sorry to hear this mate, I never thought Id be upset about a fish but was gutted when oscar died, be worse if one of my dragons :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadeusus Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Possibly an intussusception? Where the gut folds in on itself, then the blood supply to the inner part gets cut off slowly and it becomes necrotic and dark bloody colour. Fibrous tissues develops at the upper end of it blocking the gut and quite often the inner dead part (the intussusceptum) sloughs off and is passed, but the gut is still fibrosed almost shut by that time. Nothing you could have done if that is the case aside of whipping the bd down to a vet for laparotomy, excision of the intussusception and surgical anastomosis of the remaining bits of gut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Sorry to hear this Terrible News Matt All I can say is, Thank Goodness she laid before this happened, at least part of her will live on, if you know what I mean. Hopefully the Eggs she Laid will Hatch out successfully for you. Lynda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Possibly an intussusception? Where the gut folds in on itself, then the blood supply to the inner part gets cut off slowly and it becomes necrotic and dark bloody colour. Fibrous tissues develops at the upper end of it blocking the gut and quite often the inner dead part (the intussusceptum) sloughs off and is passed, but the gut is still fibrosed almost shut by that time. Nothing you could have done if that is the case aside of whipping the bd down to a vet for laparotomy, excision of the intussusception and surgical anastomosis of the remaining bits of gut. thanks for the info, one to file away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetysmum Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Hi Matt, so sorry for your loss. You have every right to feel so gutted. My thoughts are with you. I hope all the little eggs hatch out to become big strong bubbas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Wicked Name Cadeusus Welcome to the forum. Some sort of obstruction is definately indicated especially as there was no free blood from Minces description. Lets hope egss hold mate and that you have better luck next time? Always hard to having things like this happen Nav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 So sorry to read this Mincie Hope all goes well with the eggs for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Some sort of obstruction is definately indicated especially as there was no free blood from Minces description. Lets hope egss hold mate and that you have better luck next time? Always hard to having things like this happen Nav blood in her stomach and some lower down in the intestine which seemed to just be clotted blood, about an inch from the vent....at mouth end was mucus/flemy looking stuf. no live food i could see which i find sort of odd. Thanks for the nice comments above ppl. Was bit of a shock at the time, had to be one of my favourit dragons but anyway im not sure there was much i could have done differently. A blood or stool sample tested probably wouldnt have hurt. On the upside things have never looked better here (bank account not included lol) and seems atleast half a doz of her eggs are fertile. + Added bonus the sister is getting very close to beeing ready to have an appointment with a male gota love this time of year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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