Cricketman Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 ive been doing some research for Tech on Bangaii Cardinals and have read that studies have shown that individuals that did not have enriched Artemia (enriched with HUFA's, or highly unsturated fatty acids) are more likely to die of SFS than those that were enriched. my question is, what defines SFS, and what does HUFA's have to do with slowing the events or preventing these deaths? Any help is greatly appreciated, tried google and that was an epic fail... :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Aren't these marine fish? (I don't know if they are livebearers). You might get more response if this was in the marine section. Would you like it moved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 AFAIK, they aren't livebearers, they are just mouth brooders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 arg, yea, thanks caryl... :oops: im sick and not thinking striaght >. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 to stop sfs have your lights come on slowly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 so its literally they get a fright and then keel over and die? surely there is more in the wild that would cause frights than in your home aquarium? anyone know how the HUFAs affect this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 BOO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 possibly a lack of HUF causes nutritional deficiencies in the fish which affect their nervous system thus when given a sudden fright the subsequent shock overloads the system and effectively the young fish have a myocardial infarction BOO! AAAAARRRRGGGHHH gurgle gurgle uuhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Phoenix, you idiot, now look what you have done You had better get over there and administer some CPR... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 CPR = crafty phoenix resurrection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 BAhahahaha I couldn't help my self. ! :lol: You had better get over there and administer some CPR.. yea... ill pass on that. __ cricketman - do you know if the fish are capable of producing adrenalin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 yea... ill pass on that thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 spoe to my dad, should of done that in the first place really if i thought about it... clinical pathologist and heamatologist, :roll: he says it probably has to do with the development of the myo-cardial(?? something like that) - sheath, basically the nerves down the backbone, and the HUFAs develop this faster so that if they get a fright then they are not as sensitive to it and able to re-coop better than a individual with a not-so-developed sheath.... all of this is a educated guess, but it makes sense to me... guess the development of the species hasnt been studied that thouroughly yet to give a definitive reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 studying the myelin sheath development in young fish would be microscopic now that aquaculture is a billion dollar business worldwide more money is being spent on research so new developments are coming out all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 indeed, just seemed strange to me that i couldnt find any onformation on it anywhere. SFS is commonly refered to, but there is nothing i could find to give a reason. ah well. maybe one day i can find out myself! :bounce: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 thank you you don't need cpr! :lol: _________________ he says it probably has to do with the development of the myo-cardial(?? something like that) - sheath, basically the nerves down the backbone, and the HUFAs develop this faster so that if they get a fright then they are not as sensitive to it and able to re-coop better than a individual with a not-so-developed sheath.... how well developed is their brain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 how long is a peice of string? its hard to render method of measurement for brain development, let alone judge it without cross referencing to a ambiguous source. ie as developed as a dog... what species? chichuachua or a collie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 :lol: . clearly that was a horribly phrased question hahaha. what i meant was - are their receptors really that sensitive? or is it that they produce more "hormone" (could be adrenalin, or some other - i dont know) - thus a higher concentration, and so more of a fright response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted September 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 lol, i think it is that thier receptors are alot more "Raw" for lack of a better word, and when a fright event happens, they have a bigger reaction to it, than another individual with a more developed sheath... litterally raw nerves... thats my understanding, feel free anyone to correct me! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 spoe to my dad, should of done that in the first place really if i thought about it... clinical pathologist and heamatologist, :roll: he says it probably has to do with the development of the myo-cardial(?? something like that) - sheath, basically the nerves down the backbone, and the HUFAs develop this faster so that if they get a fright then they are not as sensitive to it and able to re-coop better than a individual with a not-so-developed sheath.... all of this is a educated guess, but it makes sense to me... guess the development of the species hasnt been studied that thouroughly yet to give a definitive reason. Death by hypomyelination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camnbron Posted September 11, 2009 Report Share Posted September 11, 2009 Anyway... I have 2 current batches of bangaii cardinals in the grow out phase, with another batch being held in the males mouth at the moment.. The more advanced batch of 29 exhibited the Sudden Fright Syndrome behavior a couple of weeks ago when I was cleaning the tank - water change and salinity adjustment. About 10 of them freaked out, went nuts and played dead in the water column for a few seconds before returning to normal. I had been feeding them exclusively BBS, and had been a little lax with the enrichment of the BBS. That with maybe a temperature change may have caused the freak out. All returned to normal and I've been attempting to wean them off BBS and onto other foods since then. For the 1st 6odd weeks after being released by the male, they were in a breeders cage in my reef tank and the first lights to come on over the tank were my T5's which are on are dimmable and mimic sunrise/sunset So for that time I avoided any sudden light change, after that they have been transferred to a grow out tank which has lights switched off a timer - this hasn't caused any negative effects. The second batch of 18ish is currently in the breeders cage in the display again and are doing fine. I don't know how many the male is holding now but his mouth looks more full than the second batch. Losses so far??? I am up to 4 batches including the one the male is holding now. The first batch I suspect died from lack of food. second batch - 30 babies, 1 Dead on release - fed to anenome, 29 in growout tank third batch - 18?? (hard to count), 1 dead on release - fed to goby forth batch - I'll find out in just over 2 weeks :bounce: Thats my experience anyway. If you are looking for more online information, try the International Marine Breeders Forum - MOFIB. It contains a heap of information provided by individuals, plus links to papers and articles that people think may be of assistance to other people trying to breed Marine ornamental fish and invertebrates Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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