petermc Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hey all...first of all great site...have found lots of useful reading which has helped me in choosing my equipment for my first tropical setup. My tank is 1m long,700mm high and 650mm front to back running a fluval 405,300w jagar heater and twin t5 lighting,i hope im doing well so far? I spent the day yesterday landscaping the tank,planting and filling with water.I used the reccomended dosage of cycle,aqua plus and plantzone. I have now reached the point where i am getting lots of people saying different things in regards to cycling and was hoping that the friendly people on this site might be able to poing me in the right direction. I have put two flakes of food into the tank as i was told the cycle needed something to feed off and to continue doing this daily while every other day putting the reccomended dosage of cycle back into the water. I have also been told my ammonia level will rise and then fall followed by NO2 and NO3 and once it has gone through that cycle it is okay to add a few small fish and again watch levels and if need be do small daily water changes until biologial filter again adjusts? Sorry for the very long ramble...i hope is makes sence and please correct me if i am on the complete wrong track...this is my first time and i really wana make a good go of it. Thanks in advance for any advice Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hi Peter I would put in a couple fishes to start the cycling process then slowly add another one or 2 the following week. at the same time do a water change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hi Peter, welcome to the forums :bounce: You can cycle a tank without fish but you need to add ammonia to feed the bacteria. I've never done it that way.....I use the method Wok has suggested, starting with a few fish and adding more after things have settled. You'll need to have a test kit, if you don't have one already, to test for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. The ammonia will be present first. As soon as I detect ammonia I do a 50% water change. I test the tank daily and if the ammonia has risen I do another 50% WC. The beneficial bacteria will start to consume the ammonia and the readings will stabalise and then decrease. I then start testing for Nitrite, and follow the same procedure. At the start of the cycle I'll be doing 50% WCs daily, more if necessary. As the ammonia and nitrite come under control the WCs will be every second then third day and when they're both at 0.00 the WCs are weekly to keep the nitrates in check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hi Peter and welcome. It would help if you added your location to your profile (done through the User Control Panel at the top right). You can save heaps of money by not putting additives (Cycle, Aquaplus etc) in the tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyzoo Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 HI I don't think you need to bother with the Cycle or Plantzone. Just Aquaplus or Stresscoat to dechlorinate the water. Get a few hardy fish....such as Platties to do the cycle naturally. It should take 6-8 weeks for the beneficial bacteria to build up so that the Nitrogen cycle can work efficiently. A test kit is useful but animates will test your water for free if you can be bothered taking down a sample. Ammonia is the first to appear....then nitrites and finally nitrates (once ammonia and nitrites are zero and nitrate is showing cycling is complete). Water changes and plants are a far better way to keep everything working, rather than fancy chemicals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Depending on where he lives he may not need dechlorinator. I know I don't. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermc Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Thanks for the replys..I have taken your advice and this afternoon i went out and bought five mexican tetras... I will keep a close eye on ammonia and do a daily water change....is 50% water change needed in such a large tank(440L) is coser to 25% ok for these daily changes? The other question i wanted to ask about is lighting...i have been running them(two 39w t5 bulbs) for 12 hours a day but was informed at petshop today to start with five hours and work up to eight? What do you all think? Oh and i live in Wellington Thanks again Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyzoo Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hi again.I think a 50% water change every day is a bit excessive. It will take a few days before ammonia starts showing up anyway. 25% every few days should be fine...I don't know much about the fish you bought but if they are hardy they should be able to cope with slight ammonia levels...also you have a decent sized tank so you have a bit more room to play with as water quality is easier to maintain with a larger tank. Since you live in Wellington and our water is chlorinated you do need to use Aquaplus or Stresscoat (unless you have rainwater supply). As for lighting mine are on for 12 hours per day (I have 2 x 30W)...not an expert on lighting but my fish and plants are healthy . Also if you lose a fish while cycling your tank don't worry about it too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 You may need less light until your plants become established and start using nutrient, otherwise you may get excessive algae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hi again.I think a 50% water change every day is a bit excessive. It will take a few days before ammonia starts showing up anyway. 25% every few days should be fine...I don't know much about the fish you bought but if they are hardy they should be able to cope with slight ammonia levels...also you have a decent sized tank so you have a bit more room to play with as water quality is easier to maintain with a larger tank. Since you live in Wellington and our water is chlorinated you do need to use Aquaplus or Stresscoat (unless you have rainwater supply). As for lighting mine are on for 12 hours per day (I have 2 x 30W)...not an expert on lighting but my fish and plants are healthy . Also if you lose a fish while cycling your tank don't worry about it too much. Hmmm. I didn't think Wellington water had much chlorine added. I never add anything to the water. I do try to leave it sitting for a day or 2 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Wellington water was heavily chlorinated when I lived there, but that was a couple of weeks ago (1971). Letting the water stand will dissipate chlorine and push the chloramines more towards the monochloramine which is used in the USA to disinfect water supplies and is nearly as bad as chlorine. Add chemicals to neutralize them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 yes. Wellington has a fair bit of Cl in the water. Prime is a cost-effective way of Cl- removal (if you cant wait and let the water stand overnight) cause it's super concentrated, and you only need a tiny bit each time. costs a fair bit though.. but works out cheaper in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyzoo Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 If you buy Aquaplus in the 2 litre bottle it is heaps cheaper per litre than in the smaller bottles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron11 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 hi i didnt use any cycle stuff or anything like that just added a few fish in 3 weeks then more as time went by had a few ammonia probs lost 3 fish coz of over feeding had no problems with my other tank so I suspect need a new filter soon Also i changed the water every second day that helped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Sounds to me like you're doing everything right so far. Good on you for doing the research and being patient with the process. With the tank being so big and using only a few small fish for cycling, you might find that your ammonia never reaches detectable levels. Do keep an eye on everything - especially get to know your fish and what is normal appearance and behaviour for them so you can act quickly if you see signs of distress. Otherwise you can begin to very slowly stock your tank with the fish that you will be keeping in there long term. Of course do your research and discuss your fish choices here first, and we will help you to decide what order and what numbers to stock. (That's the fun bit and we'll all want to be involved :lol: ) Also it is very likely that you will get some kind of algae outbreak. Quite often during cycling you will get one kind of algae, then just when you think you've got that sorted out you will get another kind, then another... Just be aware that your tank will take some time to settle down and get the right balance between plant growth, light, nutrients etc. So don't panic, avoid doing anything drastic, and use slow and steady methods to achieve a long-term balance. Once you have a nice crop of yummy algae you might like to add some algae-eating fish that will be compatible with your ultimate plan for the tank - perhaps bristle-noses or Siamese Algae Eaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermc Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 My ammonia levels have reached 0.25 and have been stable the last couple days.I'm doing about 20% water change per day at this stage.Should i expect to see the ammonia levels get any higher than this with five small fish? Also should i be keeping my small daily water changes up until ammonia and Nitrate levels are both at 0 again? Then prehaps every other day in the short term? My long term goal as far as fish go at this stage are black knife ghost fish,a couple clown loaches, a pleco undecided at this stage as far as algae eaters go but want to increase the size of my colombian tetras(had incorrect name first post) slowly from five to approx 20 and down the track as the tank becomes established along with my experience i would love to try my luck with a small group(five or six) discus.. From what i have read on here all these fish are compatible,would this be right? And as far as stocking levels go how would i be going as they all mature to full size? Thanks for all the help people Appreciate it. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyzoo Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I'm not sure whether all those fish are compatible....The Ghostfish may eat your tetras, and the pleco might just suck onto the side of your Discus (that need a very specialist tank).....and Clown Loaches prefer to be in groups of 5 or more. Keep up the water changes every couple of days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 ...My long term goal as far as fish go at this stage are black knife ghost fish,a couple clown loaches, a pleco undecided at this stage ... All of those fish will ultimately get too big for your tank. Also your tank is tall rather than long, so you will need to think about stocking fish that prefer the height - and I believe all those fish prefer a longer tank rather than a high one so they can have plenty of swimming room. Of the fish you mention I have only kept clown loaches and they do like to be in groups of at least five or six as mentioned by crazyzoo. They can live for many years (there's one on this forum that's already in her 20s!) and will grow up to 30cm long so they will need a much bigger tank. On the other hand they grow fairly slowly so you might be able to upgrade as you go. I did inherit a large pleco at one stage and it was really enormous! It was at least 30cm long and a very hungry, messy animal - it would fill a tank like that all on its own! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarrenB Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 hi I don’t have tropical fish but according to "Harry’s Practice" you cant cycle a tank without fish because its the fish waste or poo that cycles the tank. if you were to cycle it without fish for a week or so you wouldnt be cylcing it at all. so according to Dr Harry put in a few cheap fish like guppies or neon’s and let the tank cycle. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermc Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 So what fish would you all say would be suited to a tank of my dimensions? I dont want to just start throwing anything in and the regreting it down the track. Are discus suited to a tank of my dimensions? And if so what would be reccomended to be put in with them? Thanks Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 hi I don’t have tropical fish but according to "Harry’s Practice" you cant cycle a tank without fish because its the fish waste or poo that cycles the tank. if you were to cycle it without fish for a week or so you wouldnt be cylcing it at all. so according to Dr Harry put in a few cheap fish like guppies or neon’s and let the tank cycle. :bounce: This isn't true. There are many resources on fishless cycling. To begin the nitrogen cycle, you need a source of ammonia. Fish waste is 1 source, but many people use a piece of shrimp or other nutrient rich dead thing which introduces ammonia into the tank. Personally, I don't like cycling with fish; what do I do with the fish when I'm done? There aren't any of my own fish that I am willing to risk loosing, and I'm not going to buy a fish just for the purposes of stressing it out and possibly killing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver21 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 have read in another forum that someone used their own urine as the source of ammonia. diffrent.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 have read in another forum that someone used their own urine as the source of ammonia. diffrent.... I'm considering doing that. Seems like such a waste to put a shrimp in there, my fish would happily eat it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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