DonnaM Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 3 wks ago I got a ph call from someone with a 10 yr old male RES turtle not eating well. I suggested complete water change, filter clean, put temp to 26 and try different food. (Turtle eating mainly steak....I've never used steak as a food.. imagine the cost with my lot!) Anyway 3 wks later she brought turt around as he'd suddenly started 'floating'. So when I saw him he had lost skin colouring. His Back legs and tail were very pale grey in colour. He was curling/contracting back toes into his foot and not keen to walk. Skin was sluffing off in huge amounts. His shell had a little 'white shell disease' but not significant. The strangest thing was his eyes. They were puffy and grey around edges but also had small opaque circles that were in the centre of his iris. Kind of like someone getting a cataract. He was really lethargic. Fortunately we have a vet in CHCH who specialises in turtles and is very knowledgeable on their care and treatment. So I sent her straight to him... His X.ray showed pretty much most of his 'insides' as white and not the black colouring of a healthy turtle. He has pneumonia and septiceamia and is on antibiotics. I've got him here now due to the current circumstances of the owner. He just 'sits' in the water. Barely moving. And he smells! I had him in a tank on bench for a couple of days but couldn't handle the smell, even with 2x daily water changes. So now hes in a shallow bath as I can pull the plug and refill easily, (and I'm wary of him drowning.) Hes eaten a little ox heart rolled in the reptile vitamins I got from Oz but nothing for 2 days. Anyone had a turtle this sick thats actually survived? I've had another 'rescue' turtle with significant pneumonia and after 3 weeks she was still passing pus and making no progres....so was euthanased. The owner of this boy is obviously distressed and it would be good to have him survive. Anyone got any 'hopeful' stories to share?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 does not sound good,I would be temptd to dispense with the water and just keep him in a humid warm invironment,put him in the water when you try to feed him only,this would be enough to keep him hydrated,otherwise just soak him now and then.Vitamins are all well and good but when they are that far gone they can be too much for the non functioning system to handle,bit of a catch 22?good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 as repto said donna, keep him out of water and warm sounds like system has shut down, probably inadequate diet curling toes can be a sign of this strange that internally the turtle xrays as white, major blockage? or it hasn't been cooked has it, ie kept at too high a temp for too long sorry but all i can say is good luck with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 as repto said donna, keep him out of water and warm sounds like system has shut down, probably inadequate diet curling toes can be a sign of this strange that internally the turtle xrays as white, major blockage? or it hasn't been cooked has it, ie kept at too high a temp for too long sorry but all i can say is good luck with him Hes passed plenty of poo the first few days. First lot was pretty dark green and foul! I'd have thought 5 days of antibiotics would have started to show some sign of improvement if he was going to, but no change.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 if you get it to eat add some acidopholus to food antibiotics kill the good gut bacteria as well as the bad even used the acidopholus yoghurt in the past capsules from health food shop the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Good thinking Livingart. Yes its the sort of thing you think about with humans, but hadnt thought of giving acidopholus to turtles I'm going to phone vet shortly and see about him being in an incubator. I dont know that I have the resources/ability to set him up in a humid, dry environment with a constant temp. Unless someone can give me some ideas? Hes currently in a cat bed thing with light over him. Its one I use to transport or dry-dock turtles. Its a large cube with an opening in one side which I have at the top. Its foam with a thick material covering and is very warm and snug with a hottie and towels and stuff, but I dont have a heat pad which would be a better/ constant heat source. He is taking his ABs when I syringe them in small doses into his mouth and hold him wrapped in a towel in a position similar to angle they eat in the water. Dont seem to get any leaking out of his mouth. But basically he's just 'existing'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 we have been doing some research here on acidophilous for GI infections. we have found that whilst the yogurt based ones are ok the capsulised ones are better at reinsitigating gut flora and fauna in a model. Clinical trials underway shortly. However yogurt (several brands quite cheap at supermarket) might be easier for your turt to eat. Also abs can take some time but once again not sure about metabolism of a turt. As for incubator if you cant borrow beg or steal one what about a storage bin with a light cut into lid with a water dish in side. Also if no food in no food (poo) out which may also mean he is buliding up urates so you may have to watch that. If it is a blockage you may have overflow (foul poos) now and then if gut has rested then blockage may resolve and slowly bringing gut back into action may help as Repto says catch 18 hth and is not to twisted Navarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 you could syringe acidopholus mixed in luke warm, only drawback with yoghurt may be dairy base? has vet tried a stimulant on it? glad someone is doing clinical trials on this navarre we have used acidopholus on our animals for years also dried faeces from a healthy bird, powdered and fed to very young or sick bird to reinstigate gut flora seemed to work in the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Dont know that he has a blockage as plenty of poo till yesterday and then nothing, but I figure due to not eating. He ate several pieces ox heart etc on Mon nite and Tues ate smaller amount of Ox heart. Poos are normal sausage shape and apart from the slimey green ones on Tues (which may have been from starting oral Abs as well as the IM ABs and vitamins he had at vet on Monday?), they stink but are reasonably usual turtle poo. Vet checked poo under micrscope and no parasites etc on Mon. Good idea about storage bin Navarre. I'll keep working on him..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I have a couple of heat pads if you want to borrow them. OK away from water and no thermostat but might be usefull if monitored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 Thanks Alanmin. I'll give you a call. Be more constant then a hottie :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 at this time of year ambient temps should not be too hard to keep where you want?I would just suggest a cardboard carton with as low a wattage bulb you can get away with,maybe only at night if its hot as it has been,get hiom out in the sun if you can.The fact that its eaten is encouraging,I would for little and often.Hold back on the vitamins if you can get it to eat anything decent as I would say they may be too much for his weakened systems?get the breathing and eating/digestion going again and the rest should follow on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Mmmm we've had very little sun since Waitangi WE and have a nice tropical downpour today. :-? I've chatted to vet too and I think at moment I'll keep with the cat bed thingy, pop Alanmins heatpad underneath towel with a thermostat attached and keep lightbulb over him thru the hole in top of box. I'll give him 2 daily swims (or rather rehydration baths...) in clean warm water and keep tempting with food when in water. Vet said he'll give him a tube feed if still not eating in a week. Any more ideas always appreciated. Also the xray showed lungs as white...not whole insides as I'd thought from info given Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 White lungs generally means full of fluid. either blood or exudate of some sort (intersitial fluid or pus) can also indicate collapse but generally that is black space with white centres. only thing is abs and hydration. could do biopsy or intercostal drain if a bigger less hard animal good luck Donna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hes eaten! :bounce: About 4 wee pieces of ox heart and half a square of a 'wet' turtle food from a lady selling on another site. I've had trouble getting the temp sorted with the heatpads...initially way too hot with the smaller pad...even with polystyrene and towels on top it quickly crept above 30deg and kept rising. The bigger pad wouldn't fit in my cat box, but it does fit in a thick cardboard box, (thanks Repto), and with towels and overhead light its maintaining a surface and ambient temp of around 26.3 deg. I'm putting him in very shallow water for short periods every couple of hours as worrying he will dehydrate too much..and its great hes eaten something tonite. Was able to move his head down to food and eat it.... which is very impressive given how he's not been able to move more then a few mm the last couple of days. Heres hoping....but still realistic.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 sorry cant be of much help, looks like the experts above have given some good advice I had a turtle get an eye infection a month or so back and he stopped eating for about a week i thought he was too far gone but i started bathing him a couple of times a day in salt water and left basking light on 24/7 and he came back around really quick, think the basking light did it as he stayed out of water almost all day and night once light was left on. now hes happy as larry trying to mate Harri .....etta :lol: Anyway best of luck I hope he gets better for you..never nice seeing em sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbreeder Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 i had a turtle that was vomiting and not eating for about 1-2 months at least . my stepdad had her, water filthy brown and green. i took her, had IM antibiotics every day for a week. and had to hand feed coz she wouldnt eat due to being in filthy water. got her better. goodluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Well hes survived another night and is able to hold his head up a bit better this morning and is holding front limbs in a more 'normal' position. Hes had his front feet sort of 'curled' around underneath and not moving them before now. Today in the bath he has moved about 40cm! :bounce: I'd put him in one end and he'd moved towards the other. First time hes been able to move at all. Is still easy to get antibiotics into....when he gets difficult then I'll know he's really on the mend! Mind you if he starts eating well, I can inject the ABs into a partly defrosted lava from those 'turtle treats'. They are really good at holding antibiotics.....just a bit of a 'yukky' job....I'm not much good with things like slugs and maggots...give me a snail with a shell anyday! Glad to hear your turtles improved Mincie and fishbreeder. Sounds like an awful environment for the vomiting turtle. No wonder it was so sick. Must admit with all the sick and injured ones I've had, I've never seen one vomiting Still struggling a bit to maintain a good temp in his 'box' this morning. Where he sits the temp goes up alot and he was a bit 'sweaty' underneath his plastron this morning...not good. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Thats great to hear he is eating alittle and moving more - that must be a good sign. I think you're doing a wonderful job and I have all my fingers and toes crossed that the little guy will pull through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Thanks Mel! I've just got home and found he's actually moved around in the box too! Turned around completely. All good progress! :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishbreeder Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 i went to my step dads/mothers house and the turtle looks SO SO very skinny. i fed her , step brother said dont feed her its a waste of time, she just vomits it back up. or wont at all . i cleaned her out and nearly vomited myself at the smell/texture of the water. took ages to get her right. sadly i had to sell her b4 xmas as kids were not interested and i jsut didnt have the time. i was wanting to make an outdoor enclosure and never got to it. so sold her to a lady with a MASSIVE tank and basking area. i hope ur turtle comes right. if its eating now and moving thats good. i was told that when my turtle snapped at the food, without me having to open its mouth and throw food in, that it was on the mend. goodluck. its moving so thats a good sign too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Hi Donna, hows the turtle doing today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 He looked quite bright today, ate a bit more, pooed, moved around in the water, but I obviously left him a bit too long in the water cos he suddenly got very weak and floppy again. Must have used up too much energy. Also yesterday, I noticed hes developed a bit of 'hypersensitivity'. If you touch his front legs he sort of tremors/over-reacts. Hard to describe. I wonder if his nerve endings are affected by the infections? Or something like that. Hes currently in his 'warm box' holding head up and has turned himself around in box. So, yes a little progress, but also another symptom! :roll: This is going to be a long rehabilitation, but I am now more hopeful he is going to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaine Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 hi Donna, my thoughts are with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Thanks Elaine, (and Livingart for the pm ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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