FreedingFrenzy Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 I agree that no country should risk its biosecurity, and yes you can argue that everything is a risk when it comes to importing/reptiles/birds/mammels I dont see why we cant have species that cant possible survive in NZ waters/air/land!!! How are we supposed to test this? Chuck a few in the wild and see if they survive? and if they dont then import more over? and if they do survive... ? blame the government? but yeah i agree charlie lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokako Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 1080 is nessacary or we will more species, we are still losing diversity. the point is this shows the massive cost of control once unwanteds get in tropical organisms could in some cases be acclimatised to our climate and become a problem. we do not until it is tested. it costs$ (some ppl even think the climate is warming too. lol) we need to be careful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 If it doesnt work im sure Chuck Norris could fix it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 How are we supposed to test this? Chuck a few in the wild and see if they survive? and if they dont then import more over? and if they do survive... ? blame the government? but yeah i agree charlie lol No, you would find out their Max/Min Temps,Diet etc. If it doesnt work im sure Chuck Norris could fix it all Definately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreedingFrenzy Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 If only they had thought of that before introducing the cane toad into aussie huh? Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Animals can adapt to new environmental conditions. There may be parameters on paper, but it in the real world a animal doesn't say i cant live here and fly back home. It tries to adapt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsonMassif Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Exactly. They adapt. They evolve. It is the way of the world. In our precious little country the range extends from sub-antarctic to sub-tropical rainforest. Anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreedingFrenzy Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 You guys make it seem like evolution happens overnight. Seriously though, it doesn't. It takes time... lots of it. But still. . . I forgot my point... carry on :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 But not allowing importing of parrots just makes it worth more to smuggle with no controls. Ever read about how the Mafia got started in the States. Things will happen if you like it or not so it’s best to try and have some controls. I'm sure that 1080 hasn't fully been test for secondly poison, I think there was a case where 1080 was drop at Farewell spit as there was some kind of birds that were under pressure and the end result is that they where poisoned by 1080. FF the point you are making is that no exotic animals should be allowed in NZ is that correct? PBFD is in NZ but there is no way of knowing how it got here, could be birds blown over from Ozzie like the first parrots in NZ. You seem to make the point that you are 100% correct but every thing else is hit and miss. The cost of importing parrots will be very high so doubt that they will be released and if someone did how many would bred or are you just trying to scare people into thinking the same as you do. Balance is a good thing. Maybe we ought to start getting rid of the biggest killers first? Dogs and cats then we can start on cows and sheep, don’t forget pigs and goats. Aren’t horses also running wild? I’m not saying that we should open our borders just that there needs balance. From the general comments on here I think most of you don’t want fish imported any more because they could get out and you never know what is going to happen. Can any of you say that you have no exotic animals or have you decided that they are ok but no one else can have thing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 For some reason I can't posy M A F I A it keeps on coming up MAF. No its not a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsonMassif Posted June 12, 2008 Report Share Posted June 12, 2008 Well macro evolution is proposed to happen over many millennia. However micro evolution happens within generations. Adaptation. But not allowing importing of parrots just makes it worth more to smuggle with no controls. Ever read about how the MAF got started in the States. Things will happen if you like it or not so it’s best to try and have some controls. I disagree. People need to stand up and report any illegal black market trade in animals IMO. Regulation of a trade in illegal animals is an not a positive suggestion IMO. Things will happen whether you like it or no, so put regulations on it??? Honestly. That is saying that trading illegal animals and trading P are ok if the Govt. gets some tax, or some bureaucrats get to make a plan to have it distributed across the country equally. Are you for serious??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 You can then use that same argument about p for alcohol and tobacco when neither is good for NZ but they are continued to be allowed by law. The point I'm trying to make is that I want to import parrots that are worth between $5k and $20k and if they can be proven to be free of disease why shouldn't we be allowed to import these when there are already some in the country. I can't ever see these being released and if some do get free I don't think that there would be the numbers to breed. The gene pool for some parrots is very small in NZ and with out new blood lines they will cease to remain in NZ. This would be a loss to NZ and the world of genetic lines already here. There are cases of Macaws being gift back to the Brazil government as they are the only ones left. The Moluccan Cockatoo will become extinct in the wild due to logging and land clearance so any and all birds are very important The current laws only benefit those people willing to brake them while the people who abide by them are still at risk from disease from smuggled birds, you just can't stick your head in the sand and think its going to go away. Probation doesn't work, While the use of P in NZ is a concern people will still use it, it won't go away so the law is a waste of time and only benefits those willing to brake it and make money. If some one can come up with a reason why Green wing Macaws can't be imported in NZ please state them. Before anyone starts bring up the same old reason I’ll state some replies. All birds will have to clear Quarantine. Only Domestic bred breeds from reliable sources (ie Ozzie). I doubt that people would release birds worth $10k and if they did it would have to have a mate so almost impossible to breed in the wild. Have a think about it why shouldn't they be imported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Speaking in a broad sense regarding the whole importing of fish/plants thing; Their system is flawed and was obviously designed by a bureaucrat with little knowledge on what they're supposed to be protecting or what they're trying to protect it from. From the unthorough survey and incomplete list of what is already here, to the ignorant/uneducated inspectors who can't identify organisms in quarantine. Trying to ban certain reptiles that pose little if any threat while allowing vermin like cats to be bred and roam free unrestricted. Not allowing generic dispensations for genera that pose no threat at all.... The sad thing is that I can't see any reason why they would bother to change it... :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Vinson I'm not talking about the illegal wildlife trade but animals that have been domestic bred. Much like taking your cat to Ozzie if you move. The last thing I would like to see are parrots being wild caught and shipped around the world but still this is not the main reason that parrots are becoming extinct, think about where that hardwood outdoor furniture came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 FF buy the way DOC poisoned the Kea at the Arthur’s pass dump as they didn't like the tour buses turning up there to see the Kea on the rubbish tip. That is where the 2 that where nailed to the road sign came from as people where real pissed off that they could kill our native animals. So yes Doc do poison Kea and yes 1080 does kill other native NZ birds so you are wrong in your statement get your facts right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuba Sam Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 The point I'm trying to make is that I want to import parrots that are worth between $5k and $20k and if they can be proven to be free of disease why shouldn't we be allowed to import these when there are already some in the country. quote] Hi BK, perhaps the answer is to use the twenty grand you want to spend bringing in a parrot to go have a holiday in Oz - the Bird Sanctuary near Cairns would let you spend time with Aussie Parrots. Or even move to be closer to them? Most of us kiwis like our NZ birds and want them protected, even if that means that a few people miss out on the pets they want. While MAF and DOC and MFish don't always get it right, someone has to make a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hi BK, perhaps the answer is to use the twenty grand you want to spend bringing in a parrot to go have a holiday in Oz - the Bird Sanctuary near Cairns would let you spend time with Aussie Parrots. Or even move to be closer to them? Most of us kiwis like our NZ birds and want them protected, even if that means that a few people miss out on the pets they want. While MAF and DOC and MFish don't always get it right, someone has to make a decision. Agreed. Aussie is only 3 hours and $500 bucks away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 May be they might make a better decision if they base it on fact rather than feeling. What would your thoughts be in a ban on keeping all exotic animals? Or is it not a concern to you because you’re not interested in them. I want to protect NZ birds as will but can’t see how importing birds that aren't a risk is banned. I would also like to breed RC Kakariki for release but because the people at DOC aren’t interested they will becomes extinct as will in the SI soon. I hope I see you people out counting the Kea numbers but then again most of you will just sit back on your high horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokako Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 FF buy the way DOC poisoned the Kea at the Arthur’s pass dump as they didn't like the tour buses turning up there to see the Kea on the rubbish tip. That is where the 2 that where nailed to the road sign came from as people where real pissed off that they could kill our native animals. So yes Doc do poison Kea Can you tell me where you got this info from? I'd like to read it. Personally i am not apposed to some importations,however i think MAF has a hard job to do and there is little motivation for them to let new organisms in. what do they get out of allowing us to import other than potential headaches? we should be greatful for the exotics we are allowed as it is a privilege. we do have some cool fish here just look at some of the pics being posted. :lol: Also we need to make sure we don't stuff things up for future animal keepers as new escapees will make restuctions tighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I'm still waiting on the facts why GW Macaws shouldn't be imported. And as a point I was in Ozzie last month talking with the main people evolved with protecting the RT Black Cockatoos so I have more knowledge about these issues than most of you that is why I only deal with fact. I will also be visiting the Kakapo breeding program this coming summer as well. So again It’s better to make you own mind up with facts rather than what you have been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I'm still waiting on the facts why GW Macaws shouldn't be imported. And as a point I was in Ozzie last month talking with the main people evolved with protecting the RT Black Cockatoos so I have more knowledge about these issues than most of you that is why I only deal with fact. I will also be visiting the Kakapo breeding program this coming summer as well. So again It’s better to make you own mind up with facts rather than what you have been told. Here's a fact - Its against the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afrikan Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Hmmm I hope this thread stays a nice and happy one, thread has been ticking along nicely, please let it stay that way... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slightly Blue Dalmation Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 sorry but i agree with BK. if someone is willing to pay for it and it is of no harm or threat to nz natives why not? its no skin of anyones back and someone gets an amazing pet. yeah theres time involved but any amount of time can be bought with the right amount of money. its more they cant be arsed changing laws because it takes effort! basically if it poses any threat then it should stay out. if not and someone is willing to pay for it then why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 sorry but i agree with BK. if someone is willing to pay for it and it is of no harm or threat to nz natives why not? its no skin of anyones back and someone gets an amazing pet. yeah theres time involved but any amount of time can be bought with the right amount of money. its more they cant be arsed changing laws because it takes effort! basically if it poses any threat then it should stay out. if not and someone is willing to pay for it then why not. I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here - there is a process under the law that allows new organisms to be considered, if you are willing to pay considerable amounts of money to jump through the appropriate hoops - but doesn't mean automatic approval, and if an animal is declined under that law, that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 kokaka sorry but I can’t give names out as it would not be fair on those people that inform me in confidence. I agree there is a lot of good work being done by MAF and DOC and border control but there is also some dumb laws that are in place. They want to stop any one keeping and breeding Kea when it is thought that there number are decreasing? It just doesn’t make since. I’m sure if you went to Case and talked to the people there you would get the full run down on the Kea. There are other things that never get reported in the news that would really shock people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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