morfin Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Hi there, we have a 190 litre tank that has four bristles in it with an assortment of other fish. One bristle is quite obviously a boy and has grown big, he is about eight months old. One is definitely a girl - GBA - about six months old. Third one is six months old and we have just realised what we thought was a girl is a boy. Bristles are starting to develop. Fourth is only two months old and not yet sexable. But the two boys seem to be having a bit of aggro at the moment, with the smaller of the two having a bit taken out of his top fin. Is it possible that the big one is just dominating and this will stop, or do you think it would be a good idea to put two caves in to the tank - with only one open end to give each of the boys his own territory. All going well the little one will grow up to be a girl and they can live happily as pairs (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Try giving them their own territory and see if that eases the aggression. Ihave several males of varying sizes together with no problems but it is heavily planted so plenty of hiding places. Have you got plain BNs with golden ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfin Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yep we have three plain, and one golden girl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 So how are you going to keep them "pure" when they will interbreed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 I have 4 GBA's in my 4ft loach tank, 2 Male & 2 Female, they have fought a few times that i have seen, not sure if it's over hidey holes, the girls or quite what. Seems to be very little damage done and a lot of the time they will roam around within inches of each other and basically ignore each other, i put it down to one having a bad day and being grumpy LOL. Got a few other tanks with from 2-30+ males and they seem to get on ok (that i see anyway) with small tussels but no damage. You may find it's the difference that upsets them, golds don't like normal and normal don't like golds. Probably not but anything is possible. Ideal would be each type having their own tank rather than mixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumzy50 Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 Like Carl im wondering how are you going to keep them pure with out them interbreeding.If they do what are you going to do with the young..You would not be able to sell them as BNS or GBAS. :. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayci Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 golds don't like normal and normal don't like golds arrghh racism, I'm telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 What do the offspring of plain BN and GBA look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 They can and will cross breed, im pretty sure all babies will be brown and carry gold gene's unless your normal's carry the gold gene and then you will get a split.. Either way its not recommended, maybe post here and try and swap your unwanted strain or stick them in different tanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfin Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 I wasn't aware that the two couldn't or shouldn't interbreed, nor was it something that I was worried about. Also when I read Mikes aquatic pages he states that Being a recessive gene it can be present in a fish without the fish having any external appearance of having the gene. So it is possible for two seemingly ‘normal’ looking ancistrus to produce some GBA offspring if both parents are in fact GBA/Normal hybrids carrying the Amelanistic gene So then if this is the case, how do you know whether a GBA is pure or not? We got ours from the LFS so have no way of knowing if it is pure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 how do you know whether a GBA is pure or not? We got ours from the LFS so have no way of knowing if it is pure? As far as I know, there is no way of knowing without breeding them and seeing what the offspring are like which will only perpetuate the problem. That is the problem with letting fish hybridise, no one really knows what they're getting unless you buy directly from a breeder who has a pure strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 There is no way of knowing without breeding them and seeing what the offspring are like. That is the problem with letting fish hybridise. Exactly the reason why you shouldn't do it, just because others out there steal and murder doesn't mean you should Yes yours might be crosses but by assuming they're not and only keeping GBA's with GBA's and normals with normals at least your keeping them pure and people who buy yours arn't getting setup.. Most self respecting breeders will do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfin Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 So then theoretically I couldn't sell the GBA anyway, because I can't actually guarantee that it is a pure GBA - selling it as a female GBA could actually be leading someone else to continue a hybrid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Thats true......but you could sell it if you told any prospective buyers that it may be a hybrid and shouldn't be bred from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 If it was brought as a GBA and conformed to every GBA trait you had ever seen then there is no reason to not sell it as a GBA.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfin Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Geez talk about feeling bad. right so the girl needs to come out, at least it might stop the boys fighting over her - and it's a good excuse to get another bristlenose - normal obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 You shouldn't feel bad. If your GBA and Normal did breed in a community tank then very few of the offspring would survive anyway so it wouldn't be a worry. Its only a problem if you were to sell the fry. IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfin Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 interesting they are in a community with odessa barbs so did wonder if the babies would survive, but this is interesting because i never had any intention of trying to breed them- assumed if it happened it happened - or ever selling the fry. but still will think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted March 8, 2008 Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 lol no need to feel bad, you could probably swap the GBA's for normal's anyway.. It would only be a problem if they did breed and any survived, I would say some probably would as by the time they leave the cave they're pretty amoured etc But yeah alot maybe all would get eaten its OTY really, personally I would get myself out of the potential situation before it happened, otherwise you could be faced with having to intentially destroy babies if they did breed any some survived.. And that would probably be alot harder than getting rid of a few now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfin Posted March 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2008 Yep you're right, I couldn't destroy the babies anyway, got no stomach for that kind of thing. I will do something about it before they get frisky and make the decision for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchKiwiCowboy2 Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 I try to be a purist when it comes to breeding. Mixing breeds, or even breeding with ones that have an abnormality can lead to creating problems with the breed. Look at persian cats, they have problems with their tear ducts because people wanted a snub nose. Now the breed gets all sorts of synus and eye infections. The first few generations might actually look good and be healthy but who knows what it will lead to in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLB Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 You make a good point dutchkiwicowboy and one that I hadn't considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchKiwiCowboy2 Posted March 9, 2008 Report Share Posted March 9, 2008 Unfortunately it is something that a lot of impulse breeders do not consider. My wife is a cat breeder, and another breeder in her club has bred munchkins, long bodied cats with short legs. The reason there is nothing like them in the wild is because they wouldn't have been strong enough to suvive. :oops: (Sorry to go on about the whiskered ones but I learned a lot about breeding through my wife and her club) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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