"what do fish really think about their environment?&quo

[livingart]

"what do your fish really think about their environment?"

does what the fishtank looks like really matter to the fish, or is it more important to our belief of what the fish wants?

i have used bare tanks for breeding successfully, but i also love a aquascaped tank.

thought i would post this here, if mods think it needs moving please do

[snookie]

i think sometimes fishtanks are aquascaped etc .. for display ,

but i doubt importers tanks are as nice, not all fish we keep are captive bred , farmed etc.. , some our taken from there natural habitat , and know matter what we do it isnt going to replace that , even in a 8 ft tank etc.. has anyone got a tank the size of the mekong , amazon , etc..

i doubt it , so most off us are guilty 8)

[DantezGirl]

well if i were a fish i would like to be in a tank that caters to my needs so i reckon adapt the tank to the best of your ability to suit the fish

[snookie]

can the fish tell you what it needs ?

[snookie]

good example ,do neons swim in schools of 5 in the wild ? but we say thats enough

[DantezGirl]

nope they cant talk but people can study and observe and i reckon thats an idea of what you can do to make them as comfortable as possible and they will reward you with healthy fish just my opinion

[VinsonMassif]

i think sometimes fishtanks are aquascaped etc .. for display ,

but i doubt importers tanks are as nice,

not all fish we keep are captive bred , farmed etc.. , some our taken from there natural habitat , and know matter what we do it isnt going to replace that , even in a 8 ft tank etc.. has anyone got a tank the size of the mekong , amazon , etc..

i doubt it , so most off us are guilty 8)

I don't think judging a home aquarium to an importers setup is a fair benchmark to work from.

No we don't have a Mekong River in our yard, but fish kept for the home aquaria are not all migratory, or giant fish. Most fish spend their life in a defined area, space, or territory in that river.

And most of us are guilty of what exactly???

In My Opinion the home aquarist should attempt to replicate a typical environment the fish lives in. Loaches prefer a faster flowing current, some fish come from black water, some from still pools, some from rice paddies.

Fish still have an instinctual memory that they use, how to feed, how to find a mate, how to breed, how to protect their territory.

I think that by attempting to replicate their natural habitat to some extent goes a long way to it living a full and long life. Even aquaria bred fish run on instinct. A lot of them are seemingly more tolerant of hobbyist conditions. For example aquaria bred Hillstream Loaches are more tolerant of higher nitrate levels as opposed to wild caught specimens.

[snookie]

guilty of imprisoning an animal in a glass box

[DantezGirl]

that is true snookie have you got any animals? there all trapped as well so yip i agree on that one but just because there trapped doesn't mean you shouldn't do all you can to make there life more tolerable

[livingart]

guilty of imprisoning an animal in a glass box

basically that is what we all do, we can dress the box up to assuage our guilty feelings but it is still not nature.

i think a bare tank may help to stop some territorial agression

maybe all the fish thinks about is it can it eat it or mate with it or drive it out of my space.

how intelligent are fish really?

sadly a natural environment for many animals is no longer available or rapidly degenerating due to mans excesses.

[snookie]

yep i have animals , and i would like to think i am doing the best for them , and i agree everyone on this site will want to do the best for there pets , be that a bare bottom tank or aquascaped tank ,if the fish are healthy , breeding etc.. what ever suits

[livingart]

i have kept a lot of animals and the best judge of how they feel is their health, an unhappy animal will go off its food or not generally thrive

[snookie]

key word thrive 8)

[livingart]

key word thrive 8)

a good word and rhymes with alive

[mitzy]

The fish in tanks are happy weather its bear bottomed or full of decorations plants etc, If they werent you would know, i know with my fish if they not happy there fins clamped or they dont eat or they sulk and hide etc so if people know they not happy they would try to cater for that. eg. catfish like caves etc so we give them that, would they breed if they were not happy. I have a fighter in a bare bottom tank and hes happy as but if i was to put a catfish in there im not sure he would be.

[HaNs]

As Ira(think it was him) said "There's a difference between surviving and thriving"

[yarimochi]

I personally think barebottom tanks with no plants or anything have a slight level of cruelty to them. I hate seeing eels cowering behind a filter head or in the corner becuase they cant find a place to get away. I have always thought that fish of any sort need lots of cover and Im pretty sure my ornates and blue dempsey and asian aro are all very happy in their tank. I can tell this by the way they act.

[Naz_Nomad]

Though an aquascaped aquarium may not exactly match a fish's environment perfectly, at least they can learn to thrive in there. Fish are naturally shy animals and a planted and decorated aquarium privides hiding places for them. They like to have territories and the markers in the tank provide that for them, be it plants or rocks or wood. Caves and rocks and empty substrate provide a number of possible spawning places for various species, again all found in an aquarium. Though an aquarium will never be as perfect for the fish as living in the wild, I do believe that a nicely decorated and planted tank provides a space for them that they can be happy in. A bare tank provides no cover, no markers and little by the way of spawning sites, though not all fish live with these three things, they live alongside them in the wild.

We'll never be able to provide an absolutely perfect environment for them, but if we try our best and make the fish happy enough to breed and continue eating and show no signs of stress, then we are responsible pet owners and the fish will thrive.

Don't forget also that a lot of fish have never seen the wild, the aquarium is where they were born and brought up over many generations. Behaviours adapt to this environment.

[Simian]

I'm relatively new to aquarium keeping but here's my 2 cents.

Any animal we keep should be comfortable, stimulated, and kept in clean conditions. Agreed nothing we can make will ever compare to their natural environment but we should try as much as possible to make them feel safe. i.e. give them cover.

Using the lowers aggression card doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. You must ask why any animal gets aggressive in the first place, In the case of territorial or non schooling fish, their natural behaviour is to aggress intruders in their area, we have personal space and when other people intrude on it we get aggressive, IMO an animals personal space can only be shrunk to a certain point before things go wrong, if you have aggression problems solve it by giving clearer territorial markers/ rearrange tank etc if that fails give them more space by selling some off or a bigger tank if you cant bear to part with them.

I have a friend who is still distraught about the fact that his Oscar was killed by its tank mate Flowerhorn, but the truth is he had them too confined you can blame the fish all day long but in reality if we choose to play GOD then we must take responsibility.

Rant Ends

[Insect Direct]

="MysticVampyre"]If You Can Not Properly House & Care for a Fish In A Foreva Home & Give It A Good Enviroment To Live And Thrive In - YOU SHOULDNT HAVE IT! - ITS CRUEL!

foreva home, theres no such thing in todays world for humans let alone our fish, cirkey ppl this is pathetic every1s so serious y dont ppl just use or have common sence!!

[Caper]

snookie wrote:

good example ,do neons swim in schools of 5 in the wild ? but we say thats enough

Funny you should say that, I was watching a video about fish (might have been on here) anyway, I saw this big school of some kind of fish and that is what I was thinking you'd probably never see "schooling" fish in the wild with only 5 fish for example.

Also made me question about feeding, would they not just keep feeding in the wild??? Before I had fish, I used to think one of the biggest worries was how do you know you're feeding them enough or too much. How do they know in the wild?

My 2 cents worth as well 8) :lol:

Caper

[A.PROPHECY]

mystic dont you have aro and clown knife? and your tanks how wide? 2 foot ? , so your saying people shouldnt have fish if they cant stay in there tank for life? or a forever home as you put it...

so basicly your saying you shouldnt be keep these fish yourself? cause your tanks not wide enough for these fish for life or even 5 years....

are you planning on upgrading?

[VinsonMassif]

If You Can Not Properly House & Care for a Fish In A Foreva Home & Give It A Good Enviroment To Live And Thrive In - YOU SHOULDNT HAVE IT! - ITS CRUEL!

I have to disagree with the statement that it is cruel. If you are feeding it, keeping it in an adequate tank, providing shelter, and clean water it is not cruel. The fish we keep in captivity are glorified domestic 'pets' IMO.

I think that keeping a bare tank filled with fish, not for breeding purposes falls into the "ethical argument" category.

Using A.Prophecy's tank as an example (no offense intended) his fish are far from being abused. They are looked after, hence those practices can't be deemed cruel IMHO.

[livingart]

a forever home for some of these larger fish we keep should be at least 3,000 litres maybe,

you need more than one of a kind to allow normal interaction within species

to feed properly you would need to supply a lot of live food

if we are releasing raised animals back to the wild we need to teach them to hunt proiperly so live food must be supplied, it does go against some peoples ethics though, but it is what is best for the animal.

luckily we live in a country were peoples personal opinions are respected

[Stella]

a very interestng test to see what fish like would be to take a looong tank, like an eight foot, and have different options along it with a semi barrier between each one (so the fish make definite choices).

I had some bluegill bullies in a tank that had rocks and gravel at one end and bare at the other. I didn't have enough gravel to cover the bottom so I just made it good at one end. They spent most of their time in the rocky end but one would often come out and play in the bare end.

Saying fish are fine in a bare tank is meaningless unless there is comparison. What happens if you put something in a previously bare tank (like a big net, plant, flowerpot etc). Do they change their behaviour at all? Do they change where they hang out?

A fish can be healthy but totally unstimulated and you couldn't really tell.

My fish all definitely interact with their environment in a fairly major way. I couldn't keep them in bare tanks.