questions

[seftonearl]

Hi, I am new and are about to set up a 250 ltr one metre long display tank for the local Brain Injury assocciation.

I have seen pictures of Tims killies "Aquanut" and like them alot, i do have a few questuions however you may be able to help with.

Given optium conditions will they live 2-3 years, or more.

what is the best substrate it use, how about Black argonite sand ?.Does it buffer the water? is that good?.

what leval of lighting? the fish like little and the plants need more.

I have a Fluval 403, which is a big external filter, do the fish like fast moving water or do I shut it down a bit.

Do I run the spray bar onto the water or under it.

Which alge eater is best? I quite like the orange colured ones?.

What other fish would be happy in the tank? ones that are almost as brightly coloured and the same size.?.

The best plants are what? java fern/ moss I will have dark driftwood

and maybe brocken slate or stones as well.

Do I leave the Fluval ammonia remover in the filter till after it cycles, or replace it with carbon or peat?.

Thats about it, Ive read quite a bit online and in this forum but when you have had a brain injury short sharp informed answers are best.

Hope you can help, Many thanks Bill.

[Caryl]

Which killie did you have in mind? Usually killies are kept in small killie only tanks and only one species of killie in each.

Different killies live for different lengths of time but not as long as most other tropicals.

If the tank is display only it won't matter what substrate you use.

As long as there is a heavy planting providing shade you can have the lighting required for the plants yet still provide the shadowed areas for the fish.

Run the spraybar just under the water level, enough to ripple the surface. A 403 in a 250L tank will not provide a massive amount of current anyway.

Which orange coloured algae eater? I can't think of any orange ones. Different fish eat different algae and if your tank is set up correctly you will not need algae eaters. Good to have bottom feeders though.

Any plants you like will suit.

Do not have ammonia remover in the filter while the tank cycles. How are you planning to cycle it? Do not use carbon either.

[alanmin4304]

I have a tank about that size full of killies and it works well.

Some suggestions:

1 Keep away from anuals (Nothobranchius etc as they wont live as long)

2 Keep only males which will be of similar size and nature

3 Suitable would be gardneri--blue, yellow, albino and nigerianus

4 I have these sort of males with coriodorus, siamese algae eaters and clown loaches and they do well

5 Plant the tank heavily to give hiding places

6 Wind the temperature down to 22 -23 deg C.

The killies should live 3 years. and the other fish should look after algae and snails.

[Rozski]

I don't know if "killie" and "display tank" will go together so well, as mine tend to be invisible most of the time. They prefer to hide out, and don't swim around that often.

Lots of colourful males would look gorgeous though, but they are small and might look a little lost in such a big tank

[Zev]

Which orange coloured algae eater? I can't think of any orange one.

Maybe he's thinking of a golden algae eater, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri, which I think is the CAE, but gold form?

Killies prefer softer water, so a subtrate such as aragonite would probably no be a good idea. If you want a darker substrate (this makes the killies colour show quite well), you could look at collecting some fine gravel from Westshore or Marine Parade - not too close to the Fertilizer works, though.

Wash it well, and try to take out as many shells as you can. We usually stick it in a bucket and run the hose in it for a couple of hours, swirling it around occasionally, then put it in the tank.

[Barrie]

In the lounge I have a tank that only houses Killis except for a Palco and they are of different sizes. The tank has enough room to allow most not to hide for long and come out a enjoy the view of me having dinner

[seftonearl]

Hi there again, Well you have given me plenty to think about.

First the Killies I was looking at are on Trade me from Tim, He has quite a range I thought one of each.

Im not sure of the size?, not that happy with small.

I need some actitivy as well, may be a different fish?.I got a bit carried away by the colours.

It looks as if you saved me $40 on the sand any way unless I change to cichlids?. Im just after the best all round display tank, something that looks stunning with plant, driftwood, and fish, have I missed out on the best setup? which way do I turn. I need all the help you can give.

[alanmin4304]

My killie tank is 1200 x 450 x 400 high and is heavily planted with medium lighting. Plants like light and killies don't so a lot of plant gives them places to hide and get away from the light. I usually have 20 - 30 males in there of various types and have had various gardneri and australe in there together without problems. I don't mix australe with gardneri now as I find the gardneri are a bit more bossy and slow the growth of the australe. They would be OK together if mature in a display tank. There are always some fish visable and visitors are usually impressed.

[seftonearl]

Thanks alanmin, that has helped put me back on track.

Have you found is best to put a plant substrate down with dark sand on top in order to get good growth for the plants. What do you use? It seems Plants may have less than ideal light.? In fact can you or anyone give me and idea of what lights I should buy? I was guessing 2x 36in tubes but dont know what type or wattage.Thanks.

[Rozski]

You said you weren't sure of the size?

Well most species only get to 6cm don't they? Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but thats what I have seen. So they are small fish.

But somehow (who knows what they've been fed! lol) there is a pair in the planted display tank at the LFS here, and the male is 10cm long. Can't pull the name off the top of my head, but its the bright yellow type with red spots. Hes gorgeous, but again, you only see him half of the time.

Like alanmin said though, if you have enough in the tank, there will always be some visible

[Barrie]

Rozski

I have Killis from 30mm long (mature) to 100 mm long and still growing(this Sjoestedti can grow as long as 150mm)

[Rozski]

I have Killis from 30mm long (mature) to 100 mm long and still growing(this Sjoestedti can grow as long as 150mm)

So size varies then? :lol: I knew there were some bigger varieties, but I thought most like the australe, gardneri and striatum maxed out at 6cm.

[alanmin4304]

I use greywacke river sand and put it through a seive to take out the largest about 25%, place the rest in the tank and put the washed larger stuff on top to hold down any silt. My lights are 2 x 4ft (total 80 watts) on 17 hours/day. Tubes are one growlux and one soft white.

Plants grown successfully are ;

Ludwigia repens

Hygrophila stricta, difformis and polysperma

3 types of Java fern

2 types of Rotala

Aponogeton undulatus and crispus

Cryptocoryne wendtii, balansae, blassii and walkeri

Echinodorus tenellus, martii,red special,barthii, amazonicus,bleheri and rubin

So it can handle a range of plants and they go well at the lower temperature.

[Whiskas]

Rozski - I have seen that killie, the one in Wet Pets is the one you are talking about eh? He is very cool!

I have 8 Epiplatys Dageti (bought from Aquanut aka Tim), they are out most of the time - usually chasing each other or bits of debris stuff in the hope that it is live food.

I have 2 Bristlenose catfish in with them and so far there have been no probs. I did have a Golden Algae Eater in with them but for some reason he just died, dunno if this was due to the killies or some other reason. There mouths can open quite large so any fish you put in with them will need to be the same size or bigger or be able to swim very quickly. Tested this (accidentily, thought they would survive) with some deformed guppies that had grown to about 2.5cm and they still got eaten! The killies are about 5cm.

Lots of the stuff i read before i got them said they were really particular about water conditions but I havn't found them to be too fussy at all.

They definately prefer to have places to hide and plants to get in the "shade". They are very fun to watch and are very curious lil fish. If i put my finger on the tank glass they will eye it up and either come over to investigate or swim quickly away.

Just remember if you do decide to get killies for your display tank to COVER THE TANK, they are jumpers.

[Rozski]

Yup, the one in Wet Pets Hes cool, and huuuuge for that type

Here is my wee boy, managed to actually get a semi-decent photo for once:

[Barrie]

tiz a nice photo as well

Thats a Striatum and easy to breed

How about seeing if you can get a photo of the shop one and post it as we will probably be able to ID it

[Rozski]

I know hes a striatum, I mentioned my pair earlier. Have a female too, but shes nowhere near as interesting to look at

I can never remember the species in the store. Was hard to find online, hence me not looking for it. They have them in stock sometimes though, with the name up on the tank. The silly things need common names though, none of this "Aphyosemion striatum" stuff grr

[Barrie]

interesting that you make that comment as I have just written the same thing in the Killi newsletter

Yes you need the scientific name but to say something like Fundulopanchax Sjoestedti or Nothobranchius Fuscotaeniatus is more than a mouth full.

Mind you to wright it is probably easier than to say it :oops:

[seftonearl]

Ok, I think I will go ahead with this tank and see how it goes.

I will make it jump proff useing split hose, and select compatable types of male only killies.

I will remove the amonia remover from the filter, What do I replace it with.?

I was going to add the plants, substrate and driftwood and some bottom feeders, bristle nosed catfish? and fire up the filter for a week to start to cycle it. Then add at least 12 killies. After a 2 week period maybe add another 12 killies and maybe 2 clown roaches.I need advice on the timeing for this.

I collected the river gravel yesterday and sived out the larger stones.

I then sived out the sand, I will put this on the bottem with the washed stones, the biggest around the size of my smallest fingernail on top.Is that OK?.

I guess the plant roots go into the sand. Ill try and get a good range of plants. I have ordered a two tube 36in light from a LFS.

I only spend one day a week at the drop in day house so can only do so much at a time. I will get the substrate and water in this week and heat it.22 degrees C.

The plants maybe. I might have to soak the driftwood another week at least. Its putting out quite a bit of brown colour also at present. Anything I have missed out?. Bill

[alanmin4304]

If you use the scientific name you will get the fish you want. Many fish (and plants) have common names that are used for more than one type so it can cause confusion.

[seftonearl]

Thanks will do that.

I washed the sand but then worked out it was to fine to use. Washed the gravel and got a person who sells aquatic plants to say it was fine.

Will put the substrate in next Thursday and will fire up the filter. Plants arrive from Auckland five days later. $50 worth mainly the ones recommended.

Can someone tell why I need to remove the ammonia absorbing substrate from the filter.? any suggestions on what to replace it with.

Do I have to put some fish in?( how many) before the filter cycles.

How long before adding the main inhabitants?. Cheers Bill.

[alanmin4304]

Fish produce urea as waste and bacteria break that to ammonia then nitrite, then nitrate. Ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish and nitrate is used by the plants and is not toxic in normal concentrations but can cause algae problems if you get too much. Bacteria grow to convert the urea to ammonia, then nitrite, then nitrate and this is called cycling the tank (nitrogen cycle) The tank cannot cycle if you add products that remove the ammonia as there is nothing to feed these bacteria that you want to encourage. There are two schools of thought---cycling with fish or by adding ammonia or dead prawns that produce ammonia.

I prefer cycling with fish and would plant the tank out to get your plants established (and eventually use up some of the nitrate) Then add a couple of fish each week until you get the tank set up with the fish numbers you want. You can add the fish more rapidly and do water changes to reduce the ammonia and nitrate but this upsets the natural balance somewhat.

[seftonearl]

Thank you very much indeed, that was the answer in a nutshell.

Just what I need. I will follow your advice to the letter.

It seams to me that I might as well put filter wool in the middle of the canisters filter?.

Also the fish, the first 2 maybe Bristle nose catfish, don't they feed off the bottom eat leftover scrapes, peas, cucumber and driftwood don't get to big, and wont get into conflict with the killifish.?

I'm not sure about a algae eater, Plecostomus, do I need one, they look great,( is there not a yellow one?) would it not get to big, or do you keep it till it does? I could have two of each which will take care of a few weeks to get the filter started.

I'm thinking it would be a good idea to get any other fish established before the killies arrive, I'm not sure of species that will fit in.

I like clown loachs, they like to be in a group? at least two.?

Can any one give me ideas of other fish which will look fantastic and live with Killies?.

Cheers.

[paul_r]

I have some guppies in with some killies while im waiting for more tanks. seem to be doing fine. Only thing is there have been absolutly no surviving guppy fry

[Zev]

Hi Bill

You can put some more ceramic noodles in the cannister instead of filter wool, which may cut you flow when it starts to get clogged up with gunk - or some coarse sponge to give you more surface area for nitrifying bacteria to cling to.

If you want some hardy cycling fish, I can give you a few guppies to get the process started, they seem to be able to handle this quite well.

I don't think the Bristlenoses will cause too much trouble for the killies, but Plecos can be a bit mean to your plants, digging them up and munching on the leaves.

Clown Loaches are quite sensitive to tank conditions, and can be prone to white spot when stressed, so if you want to add some, make sure that your tank has cycled properly and the parameters are stable before adding them.