Stella Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I have only just found this thread thanks to this other natives thread: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewto ... 202#246202 yay for natives! First I shall copy and paste what I said there about mudfish so I don't need to repeat myself ***** Regarding mudfish, from what I have been able to gather from DoC there are no individually protected native fish outside of the details I posted above. Mudfish are an interesting case. They are often presumed to be more rare than they actually are, due to being harder to catch or something. In certain areas they are very populous, in other areas they are severely threatened or locally extinct. They live in wetlands, which are very threatened overall. With collecting them from the wild, you *can* but it may not be ethical or legal. Ethical where they are locally rare or threatened, and legal if their habitat is protected. A lot of the wetlands they are found in decent numbers are protected, therefore illegal to take anything from them. Personally, for my book on keeping native fish, I have chosen not to include mudfish, due to the above considerations. As to keeping them in aquaria, apparently they do make good inhabitants, but their requirements are quite different to other natives, and, apart from a couple of bully species, they really have their own little habitat niche to themselves (thus single-species aquarium). As a side note, I do not know a lot about them and may be barking up the wrong tree with something above, but due to not knowing, I suggest leaving them alone. But the *very exciting* part is I have been asked by some people at massey to breed brown mudfish for a translocation/restoration project (part of someone's masters thesis), all costs covered!!!! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: ***** [end quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coelacanth Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 yeah we really need a native freshwater section instead of having threads buried all over the place.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!!!!!! :bounce: Don't know what the mods would think, but I would love it Could include native marine too. Stella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coelacanth Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I don't think the mods would really go for it. Not enough threads to make it worthwhile. And the marines just get put in the marine section..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 So the next bit is to reply to a few points The fry of bullies and torrentfish are often caught with whitebait as they also have a marine juvenile stage, however they have a body shape very closely resembling the adult and are easily identifiable as to which type (bully/torrentfish) they are, but telling which species (redfin/common etc) usually comes later. Indeed bully species can be very hard for even the serious employed-to-do-this-sort-of-thing experts to tell apart! Whitebait have a different look to the adults and are very hard to tell the species apart: *INANGA are the easiest (and commonest, 95-ish% as Coelacanth said) who have little black dots along the body, usually mostly around the head and pre-dorsal area. They can be clear and/or with a greenish or yellowish tinge. They are also the longest, 55mm. *KOARO are slightly shorter and can be milky coloured. They have very large pectoral fins and easily wriggle out of buckets. *KOKOPU of all species have an amber colour, particularly noticeable en-masse. They are the shortest, and may also be climbers. When they reach freshwater they become shorter. Don't know why, apparently it is one of those things that affects various species with this type of cycle. Growing them up is kinda easy, kinda hard. I had stupid amounts of deaths. Embarrassing really. I think they are really really skittish and need to feel very secure. They stopped dying so readily once I had them in a more natural tank. Very prone to whitespot (often leave the sea infected) so it might be a good idea to treat when you get them. BlueandKim said "I've read that the dwarf galaxiids live their entire life in cold water and thinking of giving them a go. We have some darn clean water in NZ and it's going to be tough getting them adjusted to aquarium conditions, but they should be sweet a generation or two down the line..." Firstly our rivers and lakes and stream are in SHIT condition. Seriously. Seriously seriously. And very few people know or care. :evil: Personally I think it is good to encourage people to get into keeping native fish (in an ethical manner) as they then become aware of these issues. If you are out there poking at streams and reading papers you learn what is going on. I think galaxiids would be reasonably hard to breed in captivity. It can be done I think, but would be very involved. Bullies would be easier, they have often spawned in captivity and there are species that do not have the marine phase. I have also found the the natives I have dealt with (inanga, koaro, kokopu, and bullies: redfin, upland and common) become very well adjusted to captivity very quickly. Bullies will eat immediately as if nothing had changed and soon become a nuisance when doing waterchanges, they are so curious! Stella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coelacanth Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 how's your crayfish with the fish? I had a couple of blue crays in with mine and whenever they swum near their hidey-holes they would come charging out trying to grab them in their chelae. Maybe they was just bad ones... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Since losing three of my four bullies suddenly (I think they were males and had started defending nests under stones, which made them more catchable) I have become a bit paranoid about crays eating fish. I still have two, but smaller than my old big mean fish-eater. I think the trick is to scale the cray to the fish he is with, and even smaller when you are particularly attached to the fish!! They are mostly defensive and not actively trying to catch fish, but once they get a taste for one, they want more. However I am finding that they can have quite different personalities, and desire to eat fish is one of the variables... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Anyone know if your allowed to keep mudfish (http://www.doc.govt.nz/templates/summary.aspx?id=33210) in aquariums and if you are, how hard they are to find? Yep, Ruakura ditch in hamilton by the railway track- road side ditch- has a good population of black mudfish. Dries up in Summer, so best to search in spring by dragging a large net through. Technically you need permit or join NZ Native Fresh Water Fish Society- Paul Woodard 09 579 3236. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 Okay, so who's taken the time to raise and try and breed some of these natives? I've read that the dwarf galaxiids live their entire life in cold water and thinking of giving them a go.We have some darn clean water in NZ and it's going to be tough getting them adjusted to aquarium conditions, but they should be sweet a generation or two down the line... I've had most of the bullies (gobiomorphus sp.) lay eggs, but only managed to raise on the purely fresh water Crans, Upland and Land locked Common Bullies. Also spawned and raised the common and dwarf river galaxias and spawned the alpine galaxias. As you mentioned the key is good water quality of the right pH and a chiller- any temp over 17C for a stretch will result in high susceptability to disease. If you feed the fry brine shrimp rinse them well as the land locked galaxiids have little or no salt tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted November 19, 2007 Report Share Posted November 19, 2007 the Canterbury mudfish is seriously endangered and the other species are also becoming restricted in distribution through habitat destruction (drainage of swamps etc). I don't think they actually have legal protection, but aquarium-keepers going out and catching them isn't going to be doing the species any good. Leave them where they are. If you want native fish, get bullies, inanga etc Only chance they have is people breeding in captivity and raising their profile. Leaving them be has not worked so far- bit like an ostrich burying its head in the sand. Most of the Canterbury plains populations are now cut off from each other and even restored wetlands will need new fish introduced. Most of the biology known of these fish is from captive animals. Rather than pet shops selling cold water introduced species, would it not be better to have them promoting natives? works well in every other country- aussie is a great example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coelacanth Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Realistically, few people who would be going out and catching mudfish would be interested or even capable of trying to breed them. They would just want something strange. How many fish-keepers with fire eels or knifefish or arowana are trying to breed them? Can you count the fingers on one of your hands? Protecting swamplands is the answer to protecting mudfish (and other species). Captive breeding by private individuals could certainly be used in conjunction but would probably be of limited value in the real world (particularly in that private breeders breed for themselves or for sale. Most would have no interest in breeding for the sake of conservation -- and I don't want any protests from those few who would be interested, we all know the majority of people are inherently selfish). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Yeah, they are difficult to breed, seems more of a fluke than anything when it does happen. They are also difficult to translocate. Captive breeding has its uses, but is not the way to save the species. When left to their own devices they do great, they are not a fragile species when their habitat is not fragile. Decent sized habitat with appropriate requirements and they do great. Wetlands need to be quite large to really work and sadly many populations are now confined to fragments. There are areas of large protected wetlands with populations of black mudfish in the millions (according to someone who should know, but there may be exaggeration here). Then you get bastards who murder 350 hectares of protected wetland.... THAT is the problem. I currently have brown mudfish adults for a Massey Uni breeding project, and some juveniles from the Ruakura ditch. Paul Woodard was astounded we caught them as he has given up, we had great luck with minimal gear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplecatfish Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 ...And don't forget that you have to give DOC a few thousand dollars to be able to release aquatic organisms into a new area... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazara Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Sorry to Necro the thread - It's been a while since I popped my head in... Try this site Canterbury Mudfish - More for kids but you might find something new... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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