stillnzcookie

Tropical fish CAN be as easy as goldfish to keep, as the maintenance etc is pretty similar, BUT only if you choose hardy and compatible species of fish (ie fish that like similar temperatures, pH etc, and fish that will co-exist peacefully). Some tropical fish are very delicate/prone to disease, so you are best to avoid these at first. I think three of the problems people often run into with tropicals are: 1. They choose fish they like the look of at the pet shop, without properly researching their needs, adult size etc. Often there will be an info card on the tank, but you need to do more research than just reading this before you choose. It can be hard when you see really cool fish, but resist the temptation to buy! 2. They are given poor advice at the pet shop. For example, a lot of shops will recommend you buy neon tetras for cycling a tank, presumably because they are quite cheap. But neons also have a bit of a reputation for dying at the drop of a hat, so they are not really the best fish to put in a new setup. The day after we got our tank we went to look at fish - not to buy, but to see what sort of fish were available and worth researching further. We explained we were complete novices and wanted hardy fish for a small tank, and the girl tried to sell us the most expensive fish in the shop! Now, don't get me wrong - there are shops out there that will give you excellent advice, and that will only try to sell you suitable fish, so I'm not having a go at pet shops in general. But you will also find people who seem very knowledgeable, but who don't really know enough to give you the best advice. 3. They fill up the tank too quickly. The more fish in a tank, the bigger potential there is for something to go catastrophically wrong. If you only add a few fish at a time, it lets you work out a maintenance routine, and negotiate some of the issues you often get with a new tank (eg algae) without risking losing all your fish. We did a fishless cycle, but in retrospect it is probably easier to use Cycle or similar, add just a few hardy fish and do frequent partial water changes. Your tank will go through a mini-cycle every time you add new fish anyway, but if you are only ever adding a small number of fish, and doing regular tests and water changes, it shouldn't cause a problem. Let us know what types of fish you are interested in!

I think that makes a 135 litre tank (length x width x height) You will need an appropriately sized filter - it is better to have more filtration than you need, so you are often better to upsize (within reason - if you go far too big, you may blow the fish right out of the water!). I think goldfish are quite messy, so if that's what you get, it may be another good reason to have extra filtration. I think some people would recommend having two smaller filters rather than one big one, as you then still have some filtration if one goes wrong. Depending on what kind of filter you get, you may also need an air pump. If the filter provides surface agitation, you should be fine without. You should also get test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH - if you keep your water in good condition by doing regular water changes and testing the water, you are less likely to have problems with your fish. MAKE SURE YOU LEARN ABOUT CYCLING THE TANK BEFORE YOU BUY FISH!!!! You may already know about this, but if not, have a search on here and you should find most of the info you need. Also, don't be in a hurry to fill the tank with fish - if you add just a few fish at a time, you are far less likely to run into problems, and it gives you a chance to get into a maintenance routine that works without risking losing all your fish if something goes wrong. If you go to the fnzas homepage and look under Articles - Freshwater, there is an excellent beginner's guide to tropical fish (thanks Caryl!)- most of this will be relevant to coldwater fish as well. There are also articles about Filtration (under Technical) and Plants, which may be useful to you. Do you have your heart set on coldwater fish? If not, there are quite a few hardy tropical fish you could consider as well - I think the only real difference is that you would need a heater, as the maintenance and upkeep would be similar. I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice from people on here - good luck and happy fishkeeping!

Yay! Someone else from Timaru! Welcome to the forums :bounce:

We solved this in our 60l tank by doing a big water change, then blacking out the tank for 3 days, then doing another big water change. We discovered that it was caused by early morning sun shining on the tank, so we now put a towel over the tank every night, and only remove it when the sun is no longer hitting the tank in the morning, and we've had no more problems.

I had no idea that Flourish Excel could harm fish - so many people use it, I just assumed it was safe. But reading this, I have figured out what is wrong with the mouth of one of my rainbowfish - the greedy one who always assumes that if the lid opens it means food! So what is the safest way to add Flourish? How much water would you need to dilute it with to make it safe?

Sorry to hear about all your problems, Halcyondaz - I hope you'll get all the advice and encouragement you need on here to keep going. When we started our tank almost 2 years ago, we had all sorts of problems, and nearly gave up in despair, but I'm now so glad we didn't. I can't add much to help with your current problems, I'm afraid, but I wonder why you are adjusting the pH of the water before you add it to the tank? When we had pH problems, I was advised on here to NOT use pH up and down, as it is apparently easy to use the wrong amount, and drastically change the pH. Unless your tap water is excessively high or low, or very soft (which can cause pH to fluctuate wildly), the general consensus seems to be that you are safest just leaving it be. Also, are you using Stress coat or similar when you do water changes, to remove chlorine from the tap water? You said you lost 3 rummy noses and an algae eater within 24 hours. My guess would be that this was an ammonia spike, and the whitespot was possibly also caused by the stress of the tank cycling. If so, if you keep doing lots of water changes, you may be over the worst by now. If I were you, I'd stop using pH up and down, and do more regular water changes for a while (if you can when treating whitespot?), use stress coat, and test your water every day if possible, for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Sometimes, by going right back to the basics, you can get a better idea of what's going on in the tank, why you are having problems, and therefore how to go about fixing them. Good luck!

If you put four goldfish in, where would the water go? That is a tiny tank! Seriously, I would have thought there would be some fish that might survive in there, but not many that would thrive? The only fish that immediately sprang to mind (other than a betta) was a sparkling gourami, but I don't know much about them, so that may be a bad idea. Sorry I can't be of any help!

I think this is a fantastic resource for new fishkeepers and for more experienced fishkeepers who are looking at keeping different species of fish. Yes, lots of people keep their tanks overstocked and/or keep supposedly incompatible species with no problems, but surely if you are just starting out, you are far better to be slightly conservative, choose fish that are commonly accepted to be compatible, and slightly understock rather than overstock? Once you have successfully kept fish for a while, you will start getting a sense of what will and won't work in your own particular setup, but by then, you don't need a site like this to tell you what will work - as people have said, there are so many variables that it would be impossible to account for all of them. With regards to fish compatibility,a quick look at several different websites will show that there are no hard-and-fast rules. (We had a killer Harlequin Rasbora, so there are exceptions to every rule anyway!). I prefer sites that take a conservative approach, as forewarned is forearmed, then I can continue my own research on forums like this, to find out what has/hasn't worked for others. Thanks, yhbae, I think you've done a great job so far. Please don't try to please everybody, as you may end up overcomplicating what is currently a very useful tool!

We have recently added 3 dwarf neon rainbows (1 male, 2 females) to our 60l tank, and they are fantastic! They are really curious about what is going on outside the tank, so always come to look at us when we walk by. (and if you run your finger along the outside of the tank, they all follow it, which highly amuses our 19-month old) They have also made our harlequins and panda cories a lot braver, so the whole tank is more interesting to watch. They are very lively, and have amazing colours - when they catch the light they look stunning. If we ever get a bigger tank, I would definitely get more of them.

No prizes for guessing the nz, and cookie was my nickname as a child (based on my maiden name)

This is just a stab in the dark, but if you are using tap water, is it possible there is something in the water that is killing your fish? Do you have fluoride in your tap water? I don't know if this is a problem, as we don't have it here, but maybe there's something in the water that is supposedly safe for humans but toxic to fish. Good luck - it's horrible losing fish and not knowing why or what you can do to stop it.

I'm interested in how many people obviously use water from the hot tap to refill their tanks - if you have an older house, is copper from the pipes contaminating your tank a problem? We have always boiled the jug filled with cold water, then added it to buckets of cold water to bring them up to temperature (but we only have a 60L tank). I believe some fish are sensitive to copper (like corydoras) - maybe something to check out first?

diminish

gyroscope

If your pH is still dropping, try adding more crushed shells. Most of your fish should be quite happy in pH 6.6-6.8. I think all the fish in your first post actually prefer slightly acidic water, apart from the platys, and even they should be fine in that. I'm interested in knowing what happens to your pH immediately after a water change. We started testing before and after water changes, and were still getting fluctuations in pH (ie if the tap water was high, pH went up and vice versa). We added even more coral rock, and we don't get changes now - if the tank is 6.8 before the water change, regardless of the pH of tap water, it is 6.8 after water change too.

It sounds like you are having the same problems we have been having! The Ph of our tap water seems to fluctuate wildly, as the water is so soft (I didn't realise it could be higher at night - interesting, will have to check!). If you are doing a 30% water change weekly, you could probably reduce that. We usually now only change about 8-10L every week (60L tank), and it has had no impact on ammonia levels etc, but it has helped to stabilise the tank (which now ranges from pH 6.8 - 7.0). Try it, and just keep an eye on things for a while to see what happens.

If the crushed shells have the same effect as the coral rock we used, then add a bit at a time until your pH stabilises (I think it is possible to add too much?). You will need to leave it there, and probably replace it/top it up occasionally. We only have a gravel substrate, and we used the root tabs when we first set up our tank. Our plants certainly grew well (we were pruning by about 50% every week!), but we have since added quite a few plants without using them, and they seem to be doing fine too. I doubt you would need them if you are using a base layer as well as gravel or sand. I now take the attitude that the fish waste is adding fertiliser for the plants, and we only gravel vac the open areas of the tank. We test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate regularly and they are always all 0. We also used API leaf zone initially, but not any more. I think it can be helpful for plants that get most of their nutrients from the water, but I also think it was responsible for some of our algae problems early on. I think most of the hoods with built in lights have relatively dim lights, which may not be sufficient for growing lots of plants. I'm not sure that you can just replace the tube with a different one - I'd imagine it's like any light fitting that has a maximum wattage that can be safely used.

Have you considered adding a background of some sort? It will make the whole tank look neater, and give it a bit more depth. Different people will have different opinions on what looks best, so look at some of the members' tanks on here and see what you like! We will soon be shifting our tank, and adding a background, but I haven't decided yet what I want - so many choices... I think fish are supposed to feel more secure with a dark substrate, and will therefore display better colours, but again, it's your tank, so choose what you like best. Depending on what you are doing, I don't see why you can't do your tank up in stages, but I would advise getting a plan sorted out first, so you can do it in a logical order and end up with a cohesive finished product. Have fun, and let us see progress photos!

Thanks aaron11. Water engineer hubby had a look at them all and bought a bigger Blue Planet one (for tanks up to 100L). We put it in to seed it for a couple of weeks before we take out the old filter, but had to turn it off, as it nearly blew all the fish out of the water! Said hubby is going to shorten the rotor blades to reduce the flow, and assures me it is still the best one for our tank, so time will tell!

Unless the tap water is also very soft (as ours is). Tap pH is 7.2, but is that just one test, or is it always that? We have soft tap water and our tap water fluctuates between about 6.4 and 7.6, and it can vary hugely from week to week (possibly day to day, but we only check when we do a water change). We have had major problems with pH, so this is some of what we have learnt along the way. Correct, in that the fish can survive in this, but as far as I know, any ammonia means things are not quite working as well as they should, so it's worth finding out why before it does become an issue.

p.s. Caryl - I think SamH was referring to the Dunedin TANK parade...

Depends on the length of your forearm(!), but I would imagine it would be ok. Driftwood will lower pH, but coral rock should counter that. We were advised to keep adding rock until everything stabilised - we have about a fistful in our filter for a 60L tank. I think your low pH IS part of your problem, especially if it is below 6.0. Yes, the fish might be able to survive in it, but it may make them more susceptible to disease. Your gourami sounds like it had pop eye, which I think is caused by a bacterial infection. If you only had it a few days, it was possibly sick before you got it, and/or a sudden change in water parameters caused it to manifest. Curved spine can be fish TB, or caused by nutrient deficiency or bacteria - google it and you may find what killed your siamese fighter. How are your other fish at the moment? If they all seem fine, then any changes you make should be done slowly, so they can adjust to new water conditions. If I were you, I'd add coral rock, do lots of small water changes (maybe 10% every couple of days) and see if the pH starts to rise of its own accord, without using pH Up. Keep a close eye on ammonia levels as the pH goes up. If you decide to strip down the tank (which may also be a good idea, but perhaps get the pH up first, so the fish don't die from a sudden change), just remember that the good bacteria will also be in your tank, on gravel etc, so a complete clean may also cause ammonia to rise. It may be worth adding Stress Zyme to boost the good bacteria (although people on here seem to have mixed views of this!). Let us know how you get on!

OK, here's my theory... You have had your tank set up for a couple of years, with driftwood and plants in the tank. Over time the plants have grown, and the combination of plants and driftwood have made your water softer. Softer water means the pH can fluctuate more, and it has probably gradually dropped over time. The fish have adapted to a lower pH because it has happened so gradually, but either some of the fish can't cope with how low it has now become, or it has suddenly dropped a bit, causing fish to die. It is also possible that the low pH (especially if it is below 6) has killed off some of the good bacteria in your filter (hence the ammonia reading). I think this is what is called "old tank syndrome" If you add some coral rock to your filter (apparently you can also just place some straight in the tank if it won't fit in the filter) it will act as a buffer and help stabilise your pH. Remember to change pH SLOWLY so your fish have time to adjust back. Also, I think ammonia is less toxic at low pH, so you may need to keep an eye on it as you adjust back up. ANY ammonia is a problem. It would be helpful to know the pH of your tap water - you may be able to add coral rock, then gradually adjust pH simply by doing regular water changes, instead of adding pH Up. I think if you replace your filter sponge, you will need to have both sponges in the tank for at least 2-3 weeks to seed the new sponge with bacteria. I'd imagine you're better off keeping the old one. Your stocking levels seem ok to me, but obviously you'll have to get your tank sorted out before adding new fish. Keep testing the water and doing water changes and good luck!

We looked at getting dwarf gourami for our community tank (which is the same size as yours). When I asked on here, a lot of people warned that they may get quite aggressive towards the other fish (and it seems they get more aggressive as they get older). We decided not to risk it, but other people seem to keep them with no problems. Having said that, we specifically tried to get a peaceful tank with compatible fish (currently only has harlequin rasboras and panda corys), and we ended up with a killer harlequin, who wiped out four of his tank mates before we realised what was happening, so there's always an element of luck involved!

The pet shop here had more internal filters than I expected. Does anyone have any of the following (or same brand internal filter but different size) - if so, have you found it good/bad/reliable/quiet/noisy? Please let me know what you think! Elite Jet-Flo 75 Blue Planet Tank Maid FilterPro 200 AquaOne Maxi 102F or 103F I was confused by the AquaOne filters - the 102F had a flow rate of 500lph, but said it was only for tanks up to 30l, the 103F was for tanks up to 60l (ie our tank) but had a flow rate of 1200lph. This seems WAY more than equivalent filters - can anyone explain the difference, please? They also had a Fluval U2, but it was 3-4 times the price of the others, which puts it a bit out of our range for now. It would only be an option if it was guaranteed to work much better and last 3-4 times as long as the others. What are your thoughts?