wasp

Yes, if it leached aluminium it would be a concern, that is why I want to test it. However now it's looking like I'm saying this may be a problem, not the case at all, there is no published evidence that this is happening, and the kind of problems one would expect from leaching of aluminium, such as a negative effect on leathers, particularly Fiji yellow sarcophyton, I have never seen reported. So rather than be alarmist the product should currently be regarded as safe in this respect. I have been using zeovit for 4 months now and the organisms I have that are succeptable to aluminium poisoning are doing fine, extending fully and very healthy. I'm just going to test for it, that's all.

Thanks. I'll ring around and see what I can organise. By the way, I'm not testing to see what zeolite is. That is known. Rather more though than what Iduncan mentioned. I'm testing to see if it will leach aluminium.

Randy, the author, has actually been asked about that, but it does appear the work is not available. I was thinking of running a test using the same procedure used to test the phosguard, all I need is a means to reliably test the water before and after for aluminium.

Actually this is something I would like to investigate further myself. Anybody know where or how I could have water tested for aluminium?

Well I'll confirm it for you, although I am sure you already know that Just for the record, Seachem phosguard, an aluminium based product, has been demonstrated to leach aluminium into salt water http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... 3/chem.htm . But although zeovit rock has been independently studied, have yet to see one that conclusively showed that it leached aluminum..

Ha Ha but it was pretty funny, yes? Just felt I HAD to post it And by the way Reef and Iduncan, I know zeovit is not your cup of tea, so thanks for taking all my banter on the subject in good spirit! Great to be able to discuss even the more vexatious topics in a friendly manner. Cheers and out. (for now)

As it relates to anemones, BTA's will be OK with a salinity in the lower ranges. The other anemones will do better around 1.025. This is not to say there may not be some strains will tolerate lower salinities. But as a general rule with anemones 1.025 is best.

OK Layton, you win, I see it all now!! Actually I had it all wrong. The REAL way zeovit works is like this :- First you need zeolit ,thats are mineral stone which dont have any functions in seawater and are practicaly uselles in reef aquaria (same as you put sand in filter),then you need bacteria aditives ,is probably vinegar and food for bacteria what are probably rotten eggs .Finaly and last adition is hypoclorite (he gives nice white tone to the corals colours),after few years 3-4 of dosing vinegar,rotten eggs and hipochlorite you can get something like this: Complete system can be easyly done with home made products and are quite cheap. You need for 100 g of aquarium water (netto) 1 kg of sand 2 eggs Half litter of vinegar 100 ml of hyplochlorite Hobby Experience: 3 year,reef aquarium Actually folks I cannot take the credit for this post, I copied it from another board

Layton, when you say it is unlikely phosphate will ever be limiting, I'll assume you mean to bacteria, as I think we both accept it can be limiting to algae. In a typical reef tank, phosphate is unlikely to ever be limiting to bacteria, for the reasons you pointed out, and others. But in a zeovit system, it is possible that by overdosing some additives, bacteria can be induced to take available Po4 down to levels that are limiting for them. This, by the way, is a situation that zeovit users attempt to avoid, as these low levels may cause RTN and other problems. Any bacterial population will be limited by something, it will grow until it is. Some zeovit additives are designed to supply what bacteria need, minus what we are trying to remove from the tank such as nitrate and phosphate. Now I know you're going to doubt a lot of that just on my say so. Is there someone in your part of the world using zeovit? How about invite yourself over, see what they do, and run a few phosphate tests on their tank after they have dosed specific things. Oh - and look how clear the water is. Just wondered why you asked those previous questions to any zeovit users? I feel you must have some theory about something, what is it?

No, can't point you to it, had a look around and cannot even remember where i posted it now. However what I said was because both nitrate and phosphate can be limiting for bacteria, and part of the point of zeovit is to remove nitrate, running a Po4 absorber in addition to the zeovit could be counter productive as the combined effect may reduce phosphate so much it is limiting and may reduce bacterial ability to use nitrate, and other assorted nutrients. That is my theory anyway, however the zeovit manufacturers may have other reasons I'm not aware of. Has anyone used Po4 absorbers & zeovit? Not quite, but I used Salifert P Killer up until shortly before going zeovit. Has anyone used zeovit without carbon? Yes, I did not use carbon the first couple of months or so, eventually did, simply because you are meant to, but IMO carbon is not really an important part of the system. Others will have to answer about ozone & UV, I've never used those. However, in a strongly bacterial orientated system, both of those would obviously be counter productive.

That's part of it Peter, however I know Layton has already seen my post on this a few days back. That's how I know he must have a counter argument waiting. So c'mon Layton, you've seen mine! What's yours?

Hmmm... I feel like you already have an answer to this waiting.. I have already stated my theory on this. What's your theory?

Oops, wrong thread. Moved post.

Correct, we both agree here. As I said, the research to which I referred states the zeolite does NOT remove significant phosphate. Hence people leaping to the conclusion that zeovit does not work. OK, well we are both agreed on that also. I don't believe it "changes" it either. Agreed again, I more or less said that in my previous post. Don't quite see some of the other things you said the same way, as a guy who uses the product. However, I'm not out to "convert" anyone, or take over the thread, so I'll leave it at that. Happy to discuss further in a different thread though.

My understanding is there was big arguments about zeovit some time ago before i joined this board, so don't want to start all that again, however should just point out those last 2 posts of yours are incorrect Layton. Firstly, you said zeovit does not get rid of phosphate, it just "changes" it. This misinformation origionated from some research that was done that found the tested zeolites will not remove enough phosphate from seawater to be significant. Trouble is this research was flawed because with all due respect to them they were barking up the wrong tree. In the zeovit system it is not the zeolite that removes the phosphate, it is the bacteria that is already present and is dosed, has it's action enhanced by the zeolite, and is then skimmed. On a weight for weight basis, bacteria is a more efficient consumer of Po4 than macroalgae. In a zeovit system, much of that crud in the skimmer will be bacteria, along with whatever phosphate they have consumed. This is how the zeovit system removes phosphate, it is not the zeolite itself. That is also why zeovit will not work in a skimmerless system. If it was the zeolite that removed or changed the Po4, then it would presumably work without a skimmer. I don't disrespect anybody who holds the opinion that zeovit does not reduce Po4, they have just read inadequate research, can happen to anyone. Secondly, regarding this statement, Not the whole story I'm afraid. You are correct in that a healthy tank will be always "at capacity" with bacteria, however, be aware, any bacterial environment is a constant struggle between various types, and the particular heterotrophic bacteria that do what we want best in a reef tank get crowded out by other less useful bacteria. The ones we dose are two strains the zeovit manufacturer considers the most useful, and are dosed periodically to tilt the balance back towards the types we want. However, out of all the zeovit additives, my suspicion is that the bacteria would be the one that could most easily be forgone, as there would still be bacteria, we just dose them to keep it optimised the best. That is also why ozone and UV are avoided, we are encouraging bacteria, not killing them. Because of the fine reefkeepers with great tanks who do not use zeovit, including yourself Layton, just want to point out I mean no direspect by anything said, just feel that zeovit is a balanced and in some ways complex system, which has been the subject of much misunderstanding, and is still much misunderstood. Just trying to remedy that situation a little.

Could be wrong, but my understanding on the zeovit issue is that both phosphate & nitrate can be limiting to bacteria, so if using zeovit it is recommended to avoid phosphate absorbers as the combined effect can reduce phosphate below that required to get a balanced amount in tandem with nitrate to fuel the bacteria that are dosed to remove nutrients of all sorts.

Thanks. Based on the good advice given, I've bitten the bullet & bought a good used one from a kind fellow reefer. Cheers all.

Surely the best way to put this argument to rest, is to say what the "problem" actually is. Then people may make their own judgement, rather than just have to read that "it causes problems" without further explanation. The only problems I know of would be ones common to all iron based Po4 removers. The best plan would be to say what the problem is, along with references or some other evidence, and then everybody lay back and let this thing go.

Just wonder about those various ich remedies you added, anemones can be very sensitive to that. How about if you can, a couple of big waterchanges, (30% or so) , and run a good quantity of carbon. Are there any nearby corals that can touch it? Also, LTA's prefer a salinity around 1.025, lower is not so good for them.

Hi Nodle, IMHO, there are three main methods to export phosphate, these are a refugium with macro algea phosphate removing media zeovit Skimmers, feeding practises and general tank hygeine are part of the equation, but will not do the job alone. Sooner or later one of the above three methods will need to be utilized. If you go with a macroalgae refugium it should ideally be around 1/2 the size of the main and brightly lit to encourage growth. Phosphate removing media to avoid, avoid the ones that are aluminium based, such as the Seachem one. This is because over time they leach aluminium which may harm your leathers. The iron based ones are the best if using long term. Some may dissagree, but I'd recommend Salifert or Rowaphos. If using this media, it does cost, you will get more bang for your buck if you use it in a fluidised reactor. Zeovit, well, to contraversial to go into here, but I use it and it has kept my phosphate at good levels.

Just wondered if anyone had some useful ideas on this, I want to dose up to several hundred mls of additive to the tank over the day, to buy a proper dosing pump is $300.00 plus, just wondered if anybody got any thoughts on a cheaper way, has to be accurate and able to work over the course of a day though. At the moment I'm adding by hand, but can be a hassle sometimes. I know this may be a big ask and perhaps there is no other way, but just thought I'd ask.

Thanks Pies, that all makes sense, the RTN due to a sudden drop in Po4 is a known issue that can be managed, and I won't be selling it to anyone with zeovit, so think I can sell with a clear concience. Anybody want? PM me, 1/2 store price. By the way Reef, I used to run it in a fluid reactor, it would actually fluidize if I got the flow exactly right. Would eventually channel and then start to clump, I used to tip the reactor upside down and back a few times to prevent this. But I know Rowaphos will fluidize better.

Very interesting subject Brian. There is more to these fascinating creatures than most of us know. In fact, many of them are either male or female, and may reproduce sexually. I know a lot of people won't know or believe that, so before I get flamed, I quote:- "host anemones appear to have separate sexes, with an individual being either male or female its entire life. " From http://biodiversity.uno.edu/ebooks/intro.html Dr. Daphne G. Fautin considered a world foremost expert on anemones. Anything you see authored by her will be worth a read. Now, if I could just tell - Is it a boy, or is it a girl? Hmmm...

Yes, very funny. The old problem with all things marine!! But Pies, why where you warned off this product? The price, or some problem with the product? I used to use this myself and have some left over which I was just going to sell on Trade Me. If there is a problem with it I'd like to know before deciding to sell it.

So - How is it now?