wasp

Monaro, you don't need all that stuff, it's nice but not essential. In a marine tank you need a good amount of water movement, many ways to achieve that.

SSSHHH!! Don't Start :lol: :lol: :lol:

wow, all we need to do is mention plumbing and you can be sure chimera and pies will have a debate over it :lol: Sorry dude, cheap shot I know but couldn't help it :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Interesting thread! Since we got all these plumbing experts, something I want to know. First, I'll admit plumbing is definately one of my weak points, to tell the truth I don't even know what a closed loop is. But to the question, when I plumbed my frag tanks, the sump is on the floor and I ran a tube from the pump in the sump up to the top tank. But when looking at it with the 25 ml inside diameter pipe, it looked like just the weight of water in the pipe running all the way up would be quite a load on the pump, it occured to me that if I used a narrower pipe, there would be less weight of water pushing down on the pump. Of course this would be traded off by the pump having to push the water through a more narrow pipe. However, there would be different dynamics involved if the water was going down rather than up. So just wondering if there is some formula or something to work out what's best? Also, guess it depends what pressure rating the pump has. Anyway, just wondered if in this situation I may be better to use a narrower pipe?

Yes I have a hanna, Reef was kind enough to sell me his old one. Just give me a call 479-5446 to bring some water around, not today though, family funeral. Make sure the water is in a spotlessly clean container, it's amazing how the tiniest bit of crud can totally screw up the phosphate content.

Hmm... Well Layton and I have had a few debates / punch ups, but I did think our last few posts were fairly normal, factual, hey even congratulatory.

www.nzreefs.com Is that your web site Layton? If so, my congrats, looking good!

Actually I should say that Bomber is very anti to Zeovit also, he has put a lot of energy into trying to prove it does not work in the way stated. However he is a very knowledgeable guy from whom I have learned a lot. It is Bomber who has given Layton this "it adds one nutrient" thing.

I'm pretty sure most of the chemistry type guys are agreed on that, doesn't look like the zeolites will absorb any significant amount of ammonia in salt water. I think Randys reluctance to comment is more to do with the zeovit system as a whole, the mechanisms of zeolites alone is fairly well understood. Boomer = chemistry guy Bomber = biology / anti DSB guy. :lol:

Cookie, only proceed with this if you have a strong desire to find out the feeling of repeatedly banging your head on concrete! Trust me!!

Chimera have you read the zeovit guide? Following the rules is important. The people who are going around whinging that zeovit killed all their corals, are people who did not follow the rules. I would HATE for you to become one of them.

Randy Holmes Farley would disagree. On his Chemistry forum on Reef Central he said that iron based phosphate removing media would in fact deplete iron from the water. While it may seem common sense to assume that using iron media would add iron at a molecular level to the water, in fact that view is too simplistic.

Better not open that can of worms!!

In a zeovit tank the options to control night time PH are quite limited. Even a reverse photo period fuge cannot generally be done because macro algae will not grow much / at all in the low nutrient water. About all that can be done is good aeration, normally via a good skimmer. I did ponder all this PH stuff before going zeovit, and it did seem like a weak link in the system. However, end of the day, it's about results.

I would doubt that!

Another thing Layton, All the energy you put into arguing about zeovit on various forums around the world, if you put 1/2 that much effort into actually running a zeovit tank, and doing it PROPERLY, you would likely be very pleased with the result, and be a much more happy chappy!

Strange, you just did!

Fascinating theory Layton. However the fact is that in a zeovit tank alkalinity should be kept at 7-8. This is irrespective of your special "it adds a nutrient" fixation.

As Ira intimated, the ca reactor will dose calcium and alkalinty in balanced proportion, same as kalkawasser does. So if you keep calcium up with the reactor, you will also be adding alkalinity, the levels of each will rise or fall together. To lower one relative to the other, you would add the opposite one seperately. IE, to lower alkalinty relative to calcium, you would add some calcium. As Layton correctly stated, alkalinity is a driving force for growth of hard corals. NSW has a dkh around 7, so this is what corals are designed for, along with a low nutrient environement. The reason is not 100% understood, but the theory is, that in the average aquarium, with a higher than NSW nutrient level, we can get away with a higher alkalinity level, in fact, this can even encourage growth. But reduce nutrient levels down to NSW levels, as is the aim in a zeovit tank, if the alkalinty is higher than anything that would occur in nature, the whole thing will be out of whack, and the coral cannot cope and may TN. So when beginning on zeovit it may be possible to keep a high alkalinity. But as nutrient levels come down over a few weeks or months, the likelyhood of TN increases if alkalinity is not reduced to near NSW levels. The comments on the Zeovit board would indicate that TN is all but inevitable sooner or later, if alkalinity is not reduced to 7-8. So far in my own tank, due to my own ignorance / laziness, since going zeovit I've had a dkh ranging from as low as 5 1/2, to 11. Fate was smiling and I've been lucky and got away with it on those occasions with no loses. But now I've got a nice ca reactor and can keep levels solid, much better.

The article Layton referenced is excellent. Just Randy measures alkalinity in Mg/L, which you would multiply by 2.8 to convert to dkh. Bit like celcius and farenheight.

Stopping dosing kalk will allow the alk to fall, but also the calcium will fall too. You would stop dosing kalk but add some calcium to maintain calcium at the same level. Once alk was down to where you want it, and calcium was where you want it, you would resume dosing kalk, to keep them both at those levels.

Yes correct, kinda Both calcium and alkalinity will slowly drop over time, and both need constant replacing. Alkalinity cannot be actually removed as such, other than by allowing normal processes to slowly lower it, this is the slow precipitation that will always be happening. Both alkalinity and calcium will precipitate each other out in balanced proportions, so adding a bit extra calcium will allow the alkalinity to go to a lower level relative to calcium. We would then resume balanced dosing of both with kalkawasser, or a calcium reactor, to maintain them both at the new levels. But if someone is dosing them via a 2 part mix, one of calcium and one of alkalinity, they would simply dose more or less of one, if they wished to adjust the balance. In a zeovit system, stability is important as there is less of a nutrient "safety net", so a calcium reactor is recommended to achieve steady dosing.

Depends how you are dosing at the moment. But if a person is using a calcium reactor or kalkawasser, both of which add ca and alk in balanced proportions, the way to reduce alk would be to add some calcium only, in a form such as calcium chloride. Seachems Reef Calcium is calcium chloride. Then both calcium and alkalinity can be allowed to drop, until calcium is back at the correct level, and alk is at a lower level.

Yes that's correct Pies. There has been some discussion about this at zeovit .com. The actual zeovit recommended alk is 7, but you can get away with 8 and many are doing that for the reasons you said. Mine is at 8 also. This is one of the extra advantages to have a big skimmer, to help with good aeration at night. Someone will probably shoot me for this, but the general consensus on the other board has been if you can not let PH drop below 7.9 overnight it will be acceptable.

Chimera you will need to drop the alkalinity to 8, 10 is to high. What happens, not yet, but once nutrients are down to very low levels, a relationship must be kept between alk and ca or you may get TN. A Ca of 420 is good for zeovit, but alk should not be above 8. If you want a higher alk, you would also have to raise ca. But the ideal, in a phase 3 zeovit tank, is ca 420-440, and alk 7-8. This is little realised as yet, as an alk much higher than NSW has not been an issue in more traditional higher nutrient tanks, and in fact has been encouraged. But it is an issue now we are getting systems much closer to the water on a reef.