chimera

$4,000 dollars :-? for tank, rock, filtration, lighting, some corals, test kits, pumps, etc. cant put an exact figure on it, but we discussed this about 6 months ago and tried to work out what a good middle ground figure would be to have a good starters tank. you can do STARTING for less but it will cost you $4k by the time you get all necessary goods for it

Well keep an eye out on Trademe in the next few weeks coz I'm selling my in-sump Deltec TS1060 skimmer, good for 1,500 litres normal stocking, selling at HFF for $1,695+ last time I looked. You might get yourself a bargain Average price? Depends on size of tank and how far you go and what you plan to keep (softies, lps, sps corals etc and "luxury" extra's like calcium reactors, zeovit filters, fluidised reactors etc). Most would agree minimum tank setup about $4k. I'm up to about $15k I think, maybe more.

expensive - as in a decent one $1,000+ new (depending on size of tank too)

very very nice tank! errr, and the last pic of carpet anemone eating fish... well, good timing i suppose! that sandbed looks a little deep to me...

if you go 1.5m high, you really dont want it that thin. there is quite a bit too skimmers - you cant just pick a random height and width of the cylinder, plus if its a beckett/downdraft style you need fat as pumps to run it.

or just order a beckett skimmer from ocean werx and be done with it. by the time you've got all your parts it would be much the same price i'd be guessing. not something you want to skimp to much on either

Try: Universal plastics, Great south road or Plasfab, Hill st, Onehunga as per: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/zeovit ... t6784.html

well if you're that adamant that they cause problems then you either better get rid of yours soon layton - or at least the description on your saltwater tank saying you run one... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/layton ... t4928.html ...unless of course you're running your tank in a test lab :-?

i've already tried myself - so dont try engineering plastics they dont have pipe big enough try 'westy1' he made some zeovit filters; not quite that size but his source may have larger.

I have no idea layton, i just like winding you up. ...which are then removed via skimming and water changes. i, and i would imagine others, wouldnt propose anyone run a DSB solely as their main method of filtration.

hehee, reef is an importer. http://www.aqua.net.nz/ for joe public, there are a few places. they dont have livestock or pricing of it online though. in fact im not aware of any nzl retailer that does? only a few with equipment.

actually layton, i like this quote from the last guy on the reefcentral page you quoted above. i know you're not saying that DSB doesnt work layton - its the changing the full vacuum bag or servicing the oil filter part thats the point. i think there are two types of people in reef keeping. 1. those that work on experience and logic. if its worked for others, then theres a chance it will work for me. if it doesnt work, lets move onto plan B. 2. those that work on scientific evidence. if scientifically it doesnt map out, then it wont work. no way i'll try it unless the formula says it will. and sometimes theres a few that sit in between

i'll delete this post - meant in humour but a little overboard

since when did i say "process"? "we have a small closed system that will never FULLY replicate nature (as much as we wish it could)" composition of seawater, biological filtration etc but probably most important: rate of and frequency of "up and down" changes in our tanks (compared to stability in the ocean) everything in our systems are tried to be "simulated" as close to nature as possible (streams for water movement, skimmers for filtration, halides for lighting etc) but do they exactly match? no of course not. so how many millions if not billions of years has it taken for corals to adapt to their conditions? and when a major event in history takes place, how long does it take them to fully adapt again? not that we wish to wait a billion years for our corals to do well - but all im saying is DSB's are just another tool for us to use to assist in breakdown of nutrients, to feed the tank and help us maintain a tank for the short life span (in comparison to nature) in our hobby. we dont expect it to replicate nature, but as with all other tools we have it at least closely simulates it. other than that, give it a couple of years and DSB's will be the in thing again. seems to me even the "pro's" like to have their favourites - and perhaps ron did several years ago too

try editing and linking pic's from your own home page if you have one?

well said reeftec, thats the one thing i could see layton didnt get from his postings - they are all scientific evidence on a global scale. we have a small closed system that will never FULLY replicate nature (as much as we wish it could)

what pics??!!! gotta link?

clutching at straws. i found all the information i needed in that online article without the need to buy his or any book for that matter. i found the article interesting, and while im not interested in a DSB, one thing i did realise is i need some finer sand in the display - i think thats one reason i find very few animals in the sand bed it's too coarse for them. perhaps we should take all the sandbeds out of the ocean then JUST INCASE something goes wrong...

as i was thinking Ronald Shimek's view on dsb's, all for them (although its 4 year old info): http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

Slovenia - cool. Thanks for the broken link tip - it was working!!! Will have to investigate Is Prodibio a brand name for these trace element additions?

should have mentioned you need real media player

:lol: it's been done before so wouldnt surprise me

I dont like newspaper on my wall

much easier http://ofu.co.nz/graph/tides.php