jc254

Hi guys I am thinking that I may start up a native collection of reptiles, get some experience with geckos and skinks. Does anyone build the cages for them and if so what is the typical price for one? Thanks

I agree fully, our natives our priceless! overseas markets would kill for some of the species that we have. They are beautiful and stunning. However the exotics are rather cool as well, and I wouldn’t mind a 4ft monitor or iguana. However we must think of the animals that have claimed this country as its home many years before we did. Is it really fair if we keep pumping more and more animals into the environment so we can have a cool or rare specie?

To be honest i don’t think the black market in NZ warrants such attention. There are only a handful of people who can do this properly. If MAF gave out a list of legal’s then that would be great however it still wouldn’t stop the smuggling of what’s not on it. simply we want what we cant have. If MAF said we can have x, y and z someone will still want a, b, c. Why should MAF bother? MAF wont make a import list without the public pressure, I mean why make something for a handful of people that will bring in little revenue anyway? They may not have issued a reason but i believe it speaks for itself: Disease and establishment, the risks are just to high. Also if there was controlled imports of specie, after they have been Q and screened they will be $10,000 anyway! do you actually know the expensive of disease screening? and for the amount of diseases that they would need to check for would be long and extensive? what happens if the reptile doesn’t clear? do they kill the whole import due to risk of contamination or re-test them? more $$$$!!! After the final bill no ordinary person would be able to afford them anyway.

No certainly not. My point that i am trying to put across is that we cant possible think that we will ever be allowed to import reptiles, MAF/DOC/ERMA just don’t want to hear of it. I am also saying that they are not just doing it to hack us off, they do have very valid reasons. We have to think realistically, NZ was separated off many millions of years ago and for that reason our natural environment has become very accustomed to how it is. Now throw in exotic species into the mix? do we really need another equivalent of the possum? If you want to keep the reptiles then be ready to fork out the money. I mean if you can find members that are willing to pay the fees to keep their pets safe then good on them and i wish you the best of luck. I would love to see a strict control of reptile imports but I would also love to see our endangered species returned back to natural levels. Pick one. Sure Auz has a great reptile permit system but they have a very unattractive fish import list to match, they can only import one L number of pleco. If they want to add another specie its a expensive and long processes. In NZ our fish list it long and fully of numerous species and new fish can be added easily. I guess we cant have everything.

sorry bad example on the monitor. However lets say they lay 12eggs, 8 hatch and are reared successful and sold between 5-10k. That single clutch landed that breeder a typical yearly NZ wage! However good on him i believe, its all about getting ahead in life and if they can go for it! I am passionate about reptiles, i don't keep mass collections like some people due to time restrictions but if a monitor appeared and it was legal i would make a effort to own one because they are wicked creatures! However how can we sacrifice one creature for another? can we really risk the importation of other reptiles if it means our natives could then be at risk? simply no. Yes i do realize it changes from state to state, so are you suggesting that we have different reptile permits depending on the geographic zones that you are located in? Yes it may have a smaller population than NZ but they may on a hole have a bigger reptile community to warrant such a system? Also it may not be state law that requires the system but federal law? Meaning that the whole of Auz requires this system. Whites, i mean all it takes is one mutation in the bloodline, or two individuals that can handle the cold a little bit better than the last clutch and you have an established specie? but do you really want to run that risk? If you try and place cats and dogs under lock and key then good luck, just happens that nearly ever New Zealand owns a furry friend could you imagine the uproar? however think of the NZ community who keep reptiles, they can be easily pushed aside and any argument they push can be struck down my MAF by just saying they are a threat to our natives. Which kiwi would argue against that?

I can tell you what repto, if MAF wants to know what you have in your collection they are more than entitled to. They can put your door in at 6am, get a warrant for your bank accounts, emails, PM, they can tear this web add apart if they feel it is in the need for bio security or public safety. MAF have allot of power and they are more than welcome to it in my opinion. If you want to really keep a monitor or snake move to Australia, half the reason why people want these lizards is that you could pop a baby monitor for $10,000 when first on the market and they lay massive clutches so again money orientated. I am not saying that about all keepers but most. I agree a list needs to be confirmed of what we can legally have, however to run a permit system requires staff and operating systems. Also what if you break the rules? can they really afford to prosecute offenders? whats next, a permit system for rabbit, cats and fish? NZ market doesn't even come close to the Australian, so why compare their permit system to something that can be used here? we done warrant a population to run a system like this. The whites where in my opinion was unfortunate, i would have loved to own some. However NZ native frog population is endangered, do we really need another frog specie in the mix? competing for food, possibility of disease carrier and predation. People cannot be trusted to keep pets under lock and key, red eared sliders are a brilliant example. They get to big so off the the river they go! I mean i would love to own some of these species but at what cost it the answer?

also if MAF decided to make a list of what is in NZ, i dont think that the keepers of these reptiles would throw their hands up and admit they have them. I mean if you haven't heard of them for 20 years or so they are not breeding them with the intention to sell/establish a population. Its their pet and thats how they see it, why risk theft/seizure? There wont be a IHS created because their is a lack of research on species at present. We do not know what diseases are in NZ within out reptile populations, and what world wide diseases are out there. Could you imagine the damage to NZ heritage and world wide reputation if we allowed imports of Leopard Geckos to have a disease breach our boarders and impact our native species? I am all for establishing a legal list, and i would love some of the reptiles mentioned in this thread however i do not see it being a reality until their is a economical benefit to NZ economy, and with our small population and even smaller hobby that wont happen. Also regarding prices, if someone can get 10k for a iguana then good for them, if you have to wait a couple of years until they are in your price bracket then so be it. Man have always but themselves first, many people who claim they are in it for the hobby and the first to be charging a premium. Fair enough, their money their risk. You may have spent $2500 on a dragon, but what happens if it dies? what happens if its infertile? These are all risks taken when dealing with live stock.

how did they got hold of those chameleon? are they legal?

most unis don't have any pres for bio, i know they do for chem and physics. However don't let them stop you from taking a paper. I only did 5th form maths and i now take it at uni without meeting the required entrance. Just got to do a little extra work.

well. You dont need to do 7th form. Go to uni tec and do the captive wild course, this take a year. Then go to uni and take a degree is science with a biology major. This is what i recommend, 7th form is a big waste of time and 1st year bio is easy and i didn't go to 7th form bio class. Uni is getting harder to get into so make sure your 6th form results are good M and E will help. if you dont you may need to do CUP which is a uni entrance paper. I do marine biology so hit me up if you need a hand with course selection.

but to get those experiences you must have to grades. No one will take you on as a research assistant with poor grades. So Merits and Excellences in NCEA and then while at uni B+ and A's are a must.

I also recommend Christ Church Uni. They have a great science department and im heading down there next year to finish off my degree. Also if you think about school subjects you need to look at; Biology L3 English L3 (helps allot with essay structures at uni) Geography L3 Chemistry L3 (its a horrible subject but most 1st year science students are required to do chemistry at 1st year) Also if you do really well you can jump strait into 2nd year stripping a year off your degree.

You do a BAC in science, this is made up of 8 Level 100 papers. 7 Have to be science and one elective (any course, English, Geography, History) you will need to do a minimum of 2 bio papers to take bio at the next level. Then you can pick your major; which will be biological science. you then do more specialized papers such as vertebrate biology, marine biology etc. 3rd year is just a add on from second. NZ doesn't have any herp papers, not even at graduate levels. You can do specialized papers in 4th year (honor's/masters) these have to be approved and can be research papers. If you want a career in reptiles, do a BAC of Science, do your masters, then your captive animal cert then try and score a job at a zoo. I am doing marine bio at the moment so any questions just ask me as i have a good idea on paper selection.

Ill have to check with the tank maker to make sure he is correct on his measurments, dont want anyone getting hurt or the tank breaking and loosing my horses. I think i might keep the 90 high so far as i like the depth, and the deeper the better. When I get more experience I plan to set-up a nice deep coral tank so exp with deep tanks would be a good way to go. What type of filter would i need for this? Can i use Live Rock and a refugium for most of my filtration and a small skimmer? What would you recommend?

If I was to keep it at 90 what sort of lighting system would i need compared to if i had it at 70?

12mm? and the first quote was for $160 so thats not to bad?

Well I have done allot of reading now and have got a few books on marines and seahorses. I have emailed Greg the tank maker up in Auckland for a tank 90Long 90High 50Wide. This gives me 405 liters to play with plus the 60 liters for the 2ft sump giving me 465 Liters. I have sorted a chiller for the tank (aqua one cc-25) to keep the tank around 20 degrees. I still have a few questions. The Tank will be to cold for any form of coral so what type of lighting system would i need to grow some algae? What type of marine plants are available in NZ? I want to keep four to six pots, so would this tank be big enough for them fully grown? What type of filtration should i be looking at and how much Live Rock do i need? Can I keep any other fish/inverts with them or would the tank be too cold?

any opinion on tank size and dimensions?

I have been doing some reading on the seahorse (not marine basics) and have found that they grow to a whopping 35cm! and require cool waters of 18-22 degrees. Thats cool so what size tank would i need for 2 boys and 2 girls? Obviously i am thinking tall, but really i have no ideas? Was throwing around tank dimensions of 60 Long 60 Wide 90 High giving me a water volume of 325 liters? I have been reading 120 liters for the first horse than 45 extra per horse? is this a good rule to follow? (Please note I have a 0 knowledge base on marines)

Thanks for the reply. I am looking at not jumping into anything/no commitments as of yet due to not knowig enough about care and set-up. I am a uni student, however not a broke one who complains about not having enough money (I work in a bar) so i guess i can take time saving money to get all the equipment needed.

Hi I am new to fish keeping, and the only reason why i am deciding to keep fish is because how cool the pot belly marines look.At the moment I have a water dragon but i doubt that the experience is comparable to keeping a marine. So I have no equipment no tank nothing. What do i need to know?