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Hmmm.. ok im still slightly confused about the backup syphon, does this picture cover it? if it does then we are on the same track :thup: if not then :facepalm: its too late for thinking clearly.. lol This is the kind of idea ive been thinking of, and after doing a bit of research this seems to be a good way, but I need some help, where the yellow stars is where I need some magic, Basically, A drains to the sump through D (a ball valve to adjust flow) into the skimmer side of the tank B drains to the sump through E (a ball valve to adjust flow) into the Refugium area at a slower rate C is the return from the sump to a spraybar that will run from C across the wall of the tank (placement of C is far from final!) Anyway, the yellow stars, What I would like to happen down here (under the tank, out of sight) is the water-lock, where if I have a power cut etc, then this piece recreates the syphon and makes the system flow again. - Without having to restart the syphon manually. Any ideas? Im sure its quite simple, but my brains not working ! :nilly: :nilly: Also the main reason I want such a large Refugium is because I want to keep approx 50% of my live rock in there. So bigger is better 8) Thanks Heaps Everyone. Shey PS : Larger Pic of Sump and Tank idea : http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn278/st-wepn/SumpPrototype1-1.jpg

yeah I did, and honestly this was the most frustrating part of the whole setup, I ordered the reg, glassware, tubing, etc all from ebay, then when it arrived my friend who was going to make a adaptor had a problem at work and couldnt make it for 4 weeks! sooo.. i bought one off a brewing company based in aus, off ebay again. "ultimatehomebrew" company i think they were called from memory, it works perfectly

Thanks, so your pic shows the nearest overflow running full syphon and the further one as a backup? And the one right at the back is the return? Do you have a airlock problem with the full syphon? And is yours silent? Could you please post a pic of your sump with where the2 inlet and outlets go? Thank you so much!

Thanks guys, will certainly invest in a ro/di filter, what is a Media Reactor? And im confused about the overflow idea, iplanon having a hole drilled at the top of the tank to act as a overflow out of the tank, if theres a power cut, the return pump stops, so the oveeflow should stop? How does it start a syphon and empty the tank or create a small flood? As for lighting i plan on growing hard corals, so i plan on doubling the lights anyway, maybe 4x 54w t5 HO's, do you think that would suffice? All would get reflectors and there would be a moonlight and a light in the sump. I have to do more research into MH's and LEDs but i like the sound of leds, but need to investigate further! Thanks guys!!

Thank you very much Silentone, ill keep you updated as i start building and i will no doubt have more questions, ill PM you when ive got something you might be interested in? Thanks again

Excellent! Now to start getting funds together! Soo.. my list so far consists of : Tank: Juwel Vision 450 - wavemakers - sand substrate - live rock Custom stand - Sump -- heater -- protein skimmer -- lighting -- live rock Anything im missing? Also what do people reccommend for each component? Id rather spend the cash first than have to replace due to inadequacy later on.. Thanks!

Ok, so a sump needs to have a light in it? what kind of light? and how many watts / what spectrum should it be for best results? What "Critters" grow in there that are beneficial? If thats 45-60kg then im quite happy with that amount, probably your right hand side mound would be mostly in the sump, and whats rest of it would get spread out from the left mound towards the right, like a low, low reef oh and what are frags? thanks, im certainly wanting a sump, for those exact reasons

Thanks guys, do eheim make skimmers? I will have to do a bit of googling, as so far for tropical ive found eheim to be the best investment ive ever made. I definately want to sump it, as in my other thread there is a link in there that shows a rebuilt cabinet, thats what I want to do, and have it majority sump, because as I understand it, if I have a decent sump setup, i do not need to use a canister filter? @ Silentone, your tank is a exception!! although the rest of the setup isnt going to go too well in the lounge / hallway LOL and my partner might just divorce me! but that gives a very good indication as to what I need, and just how serious im getting! is that a AR620T I see? Is 30-40kg of live rock enough for 550ish litres? and how much do you think I could feasably (spelling not a strong point) fit in a 100ish litre sump? How many kg of live rock is in your Rio Display, as opposed to your sump (if you have a sump for that tank)? Im not sure about buying it cycled, as its a long time away im tempted to buy it dead and cycle it myself, that way Ive seen it and experienced it all too! plus it means I can buy bits and bobs and keep adding (this is where the spare room comes in handy ) @ Reef, is there any reason why you wouldnt put a sump on a Vision 450? And is Red sea salt commonly available? I would think if its good / best then it would be? Also, whats a ro/di filter? The reason im wanting a sump is because then I can hide almost if not all of the gear, as its going to be a in house / display tank i want it clean looking, how big are hang on skimmers? Thanks for all your help guys

No, unfortunately im in Rotorua, and I dont trust the lake to boat in, let alone swim in, let alone source water for my fish tank from! As for the fish as I partly mentioned in my above post, I want a few clownfish, starfish (the blue ones) and maybe some shrimp, but im not sure what I can keep with what, my dream fish would be a lionfish, but im assuming they are illegal to keep in NZ, and certainly not while im on my first tank! I see photos of fish, but have no idea what they are so I cant name them!

ok ok no arguments its alllllll just information gathering at this stage :slfg: :slfg: <-----White flags, honest. Not sure on what fish I want to keep, My problem is that I love the look of tropicals, simple, attractive, colourful with plants and whatnot, and you can keep the inside of the tank simple and looking how you want, to a theme i suppose. The reef tanks ive seen so far consist of alot of brown algae and rocks with brownish plants on them. - Before anyone jumps there are exceptions to the rule - many i hope!! I want the corals, but im not sure what defines "hard" as opposed to "soft", as I love plants - just never had any luck with the tropical ones (lack of light and im stubborn - want a saltwater tank, so tropical gets pushed aside slightly) However, I have decided that a marine tank is DEFINATELY what I want to do, I just have to wait for my wedding to be over first (jan 2013) sooo... plenty of time to study, investigate, and plan. So far the plan is to NOT buy the Rio 400, as I really like the Juwel Vision 450, I would re design the cabinet (with my uncle whos a cabinet maker) and reinforce it with a steel frame like on this thread : http://www.nzmas.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8344 Then I plan on putting a 100(ish) litre sump in the bottom of it, with as much live rock as possible (because i want to keep the display simple) and the parts I need (which im not sure on yet) Skimmer - What type, size, etc? Heater - What temperature, size, how many? What else?? In the hood I want to double the lights, (im thinking 4x t5 HO's, and a moon light) In the tank I want the wavemakers, and an airhose (if i have to have a airhose in there?) Now, ive read that the main reason for live rock in the display as opposed to in the sump is for fish to hide, sleep, and corals to attatch to. Is this true? Is there anyone on here who has the same idea as me? simple marine, that has lots of corals, and lots of fish, without a cluttered tank? - Pics please!! Any feedback or information on ANYTHING salt water related is extremely appreciated, success stories, failure stories, personal experiences that people have learnt from, so I know what im looking at as / if it happens. Another question, sump overflows, how do they work and why do they work? Should the sump not be deep enough to accomodate for excess water, should there be a power failure? Thanks!!

Really only 40 L???

haha yes, more mariners Thanks for the warm hearted welcome Im seriousally undecided about the tank though.. its a Juwel Rio 400, but im not sure if I want the Rio400 or if I want a Vision 450.. argh! *pulling hair out!!*

Thanks, i have a feeling this should probably end up in the saltwater section.. as now questions are starting to nag me, like, what sort of skimmer is needed for a 400l + Sump setup? How much live rock, etc etc...

well.. considering when I first started out with Fresh I budgeted no more that $800 and so far I think ive about quadrupled that I havnt really budgeted, tank is $1600 setup with a very large canister filter, and extra lighting.. not sure what else it comes with and need to find out more info. Basically I got offered it today and went home to measure where it would fit. I Think I would like to sump it, to hide the heater and some live rock.. and the skimmer, I know someone who can do the drilling etc (professionally ) What do you think is a fair budget? Wanting the normal clown fish, anenomes, starfish, etc, but no idea what fish can go with what.. alot of learning to do yet! Yes please hehe, but whats ASW? is that salt added to water or "actual salt water"? meaning from the sea? thanks

yup, read that thanks I know this is a pretty silly post, but I was incredibly undecided. I think that I have decided to sell my UFO and go Marine.. I know its a lot of cost involved, and a lot of learning again.. but ive always wanted salt water.. and this tank is (hopefully) a pretty good deal... Thanks guys

yep, on and off with the power, sorry for the long time before the reply, got it off Ubarns of Ebay

Looking for persuasive arguments to help me make my mind up to sell my UFO880 Tropical and get a Juwel Rio 400 and sump it for a Marine setup.... Anyone had to or wanted to switch? What do you find are the pros / cons of Marine vs Tropical? ongoing costs, ease of maintenance, initial setup costs, etc..?

Hey guys, im looking at getting a Juwel Rio 400, its currently running as a saltwater setup and I just want some info on whether or not its a good size for a saltwater tank, and what gear I need to make it run well. eg, What size skimmer - do they come in different sizes? How much live rock? How big should the sump be? What salt is best? and where to get it from? What lighting is needed to grow decent Corals etc? its already got a extra t5 HO set of lights in it (which brings it up to 4) and they are all "Marine" tubes. Im thinking about getting it sumped with a overflow setup in the corner so the top of the water is still out of sight Ive never had saltwater before so im not really sure what im getting into. any info would be great and muchly appreciated. Also one question, is no sunlight the best option? or is a brightly lit but no direct sunlight ok? Cheers

He does have a cave, but its not a very good cave, its two rocks pressed up against eachother which provides a fair bit of shelter, but the cornermost part of the tank has no lights, so maybe thats why hes always up there, I knew they were light sensitive, but like I say, this is kind of new for him, Thanks for that Ill have a read Thanks, thats what im after , what did he do? float upside down, just lie still for ages? etc? Thanks everyone

Bubble pump is running 24hrs, its a big bastard, with twin outlets running a 24in bubble hose pretty well. he was right next to it... wierd. Surface agitation is pretty good, theres a CF1200 running the tank with its spraybar near the top to cause good flow around the tank, and a Eheim 2213 filter for decent filtration Tank is a UFO880 315L corner unit. WC was done on Sunday, about 100L which is all I ever normally do.. PS I edited my first post with more info about what happend after lights went out

Hello everyone, ive had a relatively big (20ishcm, maybe a bit bigger) BGK in my communal tank for the last 2 - 3 months, and hes been fine, hard to feed as he still wont eat out of my hand, but not bad, anyway just now I had a look at my tank and found him lying very still on my large amazon sword, i put in a long rod with a algae scrubber and sort of made a underwater wave with it and he sort of floated down, then swam over to the far side of the tank, we could see when he ended up there he upside down, but breathing alot, then he darted up to the top of the tank (where he seems to have been spending alot of time recently), Im quite worried because ive never seen him play dead before, a few posts via google say they can but not as commonly as I would think if it was a common thing for them to do... does anyone have any experience on this? pH measures 6.8-7.0 ammonia is a perfect zero and temperature is about 26.2 but i dont really trust my digital thermometer Any info or help would be appreciated! Thanks!! Update 20:37 Lights turned off on their timer and he has appeared to come right. Just was worried as ive never seen him behave like this before, i forgot to mention that when he was up the top by the heater that I stroked him with my finger - something that I could never normally do.. Also when I first introduced him the tank was about 27-28 degrees as my small clown loach had had a small white spot on him - I turned the temp down to about 26-27 as I thought that was the communal general temperature that most of my fish would be happy with. since then he has started hanging out up the top near the heater, maybe he likes it warmer? Ive raised the temperature just now so I will see how that goes. as above anyone whos had this before, any insights would be much appreciated. Regards Shey

Hey sorry everyone, i meant to update photos of my co2 rig since i went to Pressurised, here are some photos all up cost about $200nzd including sodastream bottle, which is pretty cheap considering the alternatives i thought! Anyway im very happy with how its running, turns off and on with the lights and works perfectly. Plants are getting better and better each day and my pH has stopped bouncing around so far bottle has lasted about two months and the needle hasnt moved more than 1/3rd of the total pressure from new, very happy with the outcome!

I found some rocks like this in a fish shop in Auckland, not sure which one though, the GPS just took me to it, it was about 10mins drive from the English Corner shop place, hope this helps? someone from Auckland may be able to narrow it down a bit they have a fish room on the left hand side of their store with tanks that can be seen from inside and outside, and its under those tanks on the outside of the fish room

any chance of some pics yet? thanks im getting most of my sodastream gear from u-barn on ebay, good prices and nice fella

i use the smart-start stuff from the petshop, its just a biobomb of good bacteria which kicks the tank, and filters connected to into go, ive done two tanks and witnessed one, who have literally been filled from the tap, one or two bottles (dependant on size of tanks) of startsmart, then literally a whole tank load of fish, with no losses! its good stuff, but expensive... most LFS should have it