lduncan

How many times are you supposed to twirl it around your head while holding it from the power cord before you let it go into the wall?

Unplugging it from the wall should do the trick.

So what I said WAS in plain English after all. You just twisted it around to this: You haven't even read the abstract of the paper, and are over dramatising things.

Is the coral pictured "bad" because it is brown? Can you see the flaw in your "logical" conclusion yet? Layton

I'm trying my best to be patient here. I really don't know if you're being serious or not. Is this not in plain english? "Elevated iron levels can cause corals to bleach." I don't think i can break that down to anything more simple. Layton

Is this coral "bad"? If so, why? Can you spot the flaw yet?

??? Umm, what are you on about? I trust their research. YOU drew the conclusion (based on flawed logic) that too many zoo = brown = bad, NOT me. So saying that I'm equating brown corals with bad is completely false. How about you try and spot the flaw in your logic. Layton

Nope. According to Marubini and Davies increased zoox populations resulted in a decrease in calcification. I had nothing to do with the study. I'd like to see where you found that iron increased growth rates, because in all my searching for info on iron and corals, I never once come across anything which suggested that, it was always the opposite. And you know, because I'm obsessed with iron, i've read a wide variety of stuff from African dust to bacterial iron sources. And the second half: too many zoos = brown coral = bad is your "logical" conclusion not mine. Layton

Don't forget orange.

Some weird weather we've been having lately.

Red Sea salt comes in 40kg boxes for around $200. The single box is packed with 2 x 20kg bags, so would be easy to split. Layton

I've never said that at all. That is not what i suspect may be happening at all, so why should I be trying to prove it?

Chimera, you can't say that this isn't a direct dig at me.

So what is it about the mechanism presented in that paper which makes it such that makes it irrelevant here? It is saying that the result of enlarged zooxanthellae populations is that the diffusion rate of CO2 from surrounding water to the calcification site is reduced, because of zooxanthellae are using it in photosynthisis. Experimentally this resulted in reduction of calcification. No twisted of facts, extrapolations or anything you and wasp claim. Layton

Sorry, all the references I have must be wrong, obviously all the research was performed by incompetent scientists. So I'll spare you the trouble of telling you something you don't want to hear for whatever reason. Like I said, sometimes I wonder why I bother sharing this info. A lot of people obviously have no desire to understand what happens in their tanks. But still, i'd be interested in any research which contradicts what I have presented. So if you come across any, fire it my way. Layton

I didn't randomly bring it up.

Sometimes I wonder whether you just argue with me for the sake of it. I guess Marubini and Davies just made that stuff up. I don't see many other people backing any statements with papers, and real research. But that doesn't bother me, it's just when people insist the papers i reference are wrong, yet don't say why or provide references as to why. It makes threads like this retarded. So, if you want to debate something, at least have a valid point, or better yet, some material to back it up. Layton

The inside of the wrist seems to be the most sensitive area, still got the scar. Also, you don't build up an immunity to the stings, they get worse every time!

Don't know what you're reading but by what was found in the paper above, any increase in zoox density will reduce the diffusion rate of carbon to the calcification site, reducing growth rates. Think of it as varying the opacity of a filter, but with carbon as opposed to light.

Wait to you get hit by a sting from a fire coral! Hammers don't even register!

The reasoning Aged Salt gave as to why iron increased growth was because it caused an increase in zoox density, which would correspond to increased growth. Scientists say that increased zoox density reduces calcification: Sometimes people sort something out in their head, that is logical and makes sense to THEM. But then when you actually look around for evidence, the results can tell a very different story. I don't think you could make suggestions that the test was removed because it was invalid. It's like suggesting it was removed due to legal pressure from the manufacturer... I guess the main inconsistency I see is that corals show signs of colouring up despite indicators that the tank is still high nutrients. Also the claim that tissue lost which may occur is due to a fast reduction in nutrients. When clearly the rate at which particular nutrients are dropped is much much slower that what occurs when you perform a water change. Also the claim that low absolute levels of phosphate can cause TN. From the Redfield Ratio, it is my opinion that it is going to be extremely difficult to obtain the low levels of phosphate required to have this effect when phosphorous is so tightly cycled in tanks, and with feeding and extensive use of plastics throughout tank plumbing and equipment. Organisms often have pools (reserves) of those elements which are usually in limited supply, so these would also have to be exhausted before TN would occur due to this mechanism. Layton

Exactly what I said "appears to have". We could investigate the other options if you like? Copper would be one, cobalt another... I'd put my money on it being mainly iron though. Search RC for info on what and how Habib tested, you may also come across a link to the Lars test there too. I think I read recently it had been taken off the internet though... no reason as to why though.

Yip. The zeolite appears to have the same "impurites" as before. The blue green and orange colours come from a specific element. There are only a limited number of element, which produce these colours, in stable compounds. Do I have to do all the work around here? Here is one: Marubini F. and P. S. Davies 1996, "Nitrate increases zooxanthellae population density and reduces skeletogenisis in corals." I think these one touched on it too (from memory): Weis V. M., Smith G. J., and Muscatine L. A 1989, "CO2 supply" mechanism in zooxanthellate cnidrians: Roles of Carbonic Anhydrase. Hoegh-Guldberg O., and Smith G. J. 1989 "Influence of the population density of zooxanthellae and supply of ammonium on the biomass and metabolic characteristics of the reef corals Seriatophora hystrix and Stylophora pistillata."

According to Lars Sarbella, zeolite added 3.45 uM/Kg in 47 days. Habib was confident that from his tests (which did not measure all of the iron added), that it added at least 0.345 uM/Kg, average per day during his test period. Interesting what Aged Salt had to say about iron additions increasing growth of corals due to increased zooxanthellae density. From what i've read, the opposite happens. Increased zooxanthellae density can result in a drop in calcification rates. Layton

The flash based software looks cool!