David R

are you somehow implying that boating is an affordable hobby? :sml1: :sml1: :sml1:

Not a problem for me, I don't like tall stands that make tanks too high for maintenance and too high for viewing while seated, and I don't like having to get on all fours to clean my sump! Any chance of pics or a write up on the steel framed tank with integrated stand? I think I've pestered you about it before, sounds interesting. Surely you're getting bored not having any fish, must be about time for another project...

Why? Here's the base I made for my 1400L tank, only reason it ended up not being use is I foolishly under-estimated the unevenness of rough sawn timber. :facepalm: Those two frames sat on top of each other, the front-to-back supports had ~237mm between them, what would an additional full-length member down the middle achieve other than nearly double the amount of cutting and screwing? Do you have figures for the amount of flex of steel that size or are you just estimating? I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, but suggesting 75x50x3mm is only good for supporting a 400mm span seems somewhat overkill, and makes me wonder how the 400L tank on a 40x40 stand with only six legs (let alone my old 1400L on a similar configuration!) is still standing. So you would obviously suggest diagonal bracing more like Option B than A? Or would a single diagonal running from top-left to bottom-right of the front (and back) inside the legs be better again? I'm not worried about access under the stand as the sump will be in the garage rather than under the tank, and the stand will only be 400mm high anyway. I'm not too worried about the floor, it will be sitting directly on the concrete slab and I would expect that the 50x50 be enough to distribute the weight enough to avoid putting too much pressure on any one point of the slab. I'd love to hear more about that, and see some pics. I'm following a guy on MFK building a 14x8x4' steel framed tank (out of 50x50x3 I might add), though it will be sitting on the floor so no stand needed. I have thought about doing a steel framed, ply and fibreglass lined tank with a glass window in the front, but for simplicities sake I think I'd pour a 200mm high concrete plinth for it to sit on directly onto the floor then bolt the steel frame onto that. Sadly the wife isn't too happy about me doing something that will probably require a jackhammer to remove (she was fine with a big timber/fibreglass build tho!) so that isn't an option.

Boats are nearly as bad as cats, anyone can go out and buy one (or as many as they want) and start tearing up the ocean with no idea what they're doing. Should have to be licensed to operate one (or at least under the supervision of someone who is), as with cars IMO. +1 for throwing the book at this clown....

Nice wood!!

This one will make you have a heart attack then!! This is the part that concerns me about the stand for my tank (2400x1200x700), I don't want to spend my life savings going total overkill and build a stand from 100x100 box that could support my entire house, but I also want to build something that is going to do the job and safely support my tank for years to come (and thru the very occasional small earthquakes we get up here). I guess I need to find out how flexible certain sized steel is to see what size span it is capable of supporting, going by what the engineer/fabricator who is making the stand for me six legs of 50x50x3 will be fine for supporting the weight, but the real question is what will it take to support the pressure on the base of the tank evenly. Going for 65x65x3 over 50x50x3 will be about another $150 in materials [roughly], which is probably cheap insurance. I haven't asked about 75x50x3, but I guess using that on edge for the top frame would be better again and provide a more rigid base for the tank, then use 50x50 for the legs, base and diagonal bracing. Or would it be better to stick with the 50x50x3 and build in more support (perhaps a row of legs down the centre) to provide support over the 1200 width. It's actually looking like timber may be the way to go, making two frames of 200x50 H3 timber then stacking them one on top of the other (and glued together for when the big shake comes) will be every bit as rigid as a steel frame and a whole lot cheaper.

Cool tank, is it ex-Napier Aquarium or did you make it? I seem to recall them having a few like that out back, one with a massive paroon shark in it..... I wouldn't use 12mm glass for those windows, even if they are at the top part of the tank, and especially if you're keeping big fish in there. You could use acrylic if you're not worried about the scratching, but it does need to be considerably thicker than glass of equivalent size to have the same strength. It can also bow more than glass as it is more flexible, so while you may be able to get away with XX thickness structurally, you may find the bowing/deflection annoying as it distorts your view. Better to go thicker than what is "just needed" IMO, glass or acrylic.

Cinder blocks and beams would be a good option then, could even cement them in place with reobar in them for extra stability. Otherwise if you're building a timber stand that high I'd use something a little sturdier than 3x2, probably 6x2 for the frame under the tank, and either double 4x2 or 6x2 for legs. I'm not familiar with your 12' tank, is it a ply box with fibreglass to waterproof it and a big glass/acrylic window?

Mr Law being a bit of a joker, I did wonder if it were a piss-take of Henwards recent thread about using 25mm steel for a 2000L stand.... :lol: You could build a stand for that tank out of 1x1's if you had enough of them, I don't see why you couldn't use 3x2 if its good quality (#1 or MSG8, not the merch grade fence railing that are full of knots), but it would require more support than heavier timber. How high do you want the stand? If you're not concerned with putting stuff under it and only want it 3-500 high then I'd think about doing something like this; Make a couple of frames (I went overboard with the number of joists), and stack them on top of each other. Doesn't use much more timber than the traditional "legs" style if you're only building a low stand, and far simpler and sturdier. Again, use good machine gauged timber, not the cheapo rough sawn stuff that isn't dimensionally accurate (learned that the hard way and the above stand ended up becoming a raised garden edge...). Alternately look at using cinder blocks and steel or timber beams. Plenty of good ideas in the DIY Stands forum on MFK for massive tanks. *edit* ps. where's the pics of the tank?! All glass or DIY? Take it tank is being built on site also?

you know there's an edit button eh? :sml1:

Jokes aside, does this mean that every single aquarium stand I've ever seen, with the exception of that nearly-immovable timber/MDF behemoth Henward bought off Warren, is grossly under-built and an accident waiting to happen? So if 3.8 is the "industry standard" safety factor for tanks in the US/Europe, why do none of the commercial stands I've ever seen come anything close to what is suggested above (including California, which is about as earthquake prone as NZ)? 10x4x3', 770g acrylic tank, stand is made of 50x50x3mm steel, 5 pairs of legs and a few diagonals, owner is in the Bay area of CA so certainly not immune to earthquakes. Obviously it takes a lot less that described above by Warren to support a 2000L tank under normal conditions, though you certainly want more than the bare minimum so the stand will be able to withstand a certain degree of sideways loading. But compared to the example above that is obviously able to support nearly double that, is there much point in building a stand that will out-last your house in the event of a massive earthquake?

All I'll say is thank christ you don't come up with the building code for houses...

or 15mm glass...............

If you want something schooling then I'd go for a pair of t-bars or firemouths and a school of something larger like barbs or scissor tails.

Yeah its a bit of a trade off eh, Thinner material and more legs = more even support, thicker material and less legs = more rigid, thicker material AND more legs = heavy and expensive... I'm leaning towards option B and 50x50x3. Get a price for me too, will see how it stacks up with my guy up here.

Nice enough, but they're no wilds.... :lol:

Has she ever been bred? How big is she? I've often wondered about the effects of breeding on them as the ones I've seen that haven't been bred (like pinkles and another big striped male I had, which incidentally also started life as an uneaten feeder) often seem to end up growing big and impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if breeding repeatedly at a small size had an adverse effect on their potential size.

T-bars are cool, I'd probably go with them over salvini for your set up.

I just asked MFK a similar question; http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... glass-tank Here are the few options I'm looking at after talking to an engineer friend; After doing that awesome and incredibly accurate drawing using the latest hi-tech computer software (MSPaint...) we decided to add a centre brace on the bottom regardless of the design. No its not to any scale, just a crude sketch to show the different leg/top configurations. As for materials; 50x50x3mm, or 50x50x4mm, or 65x65x3mm, about a $50=gst increase in cost between each. The larger square will be more rigid against lateral movement, but possibly a bit overkill? I'm not going to add in any diagonal bracing as the stand is only 400mm high and we don't really get many earthquakes up here. So, Option A involves less welding and looks cleaner (and is how the stand for my 1400L tank was done, in 40mm sq), but means each leg is supporting ~350kg Legs are 1200mm apart which is the same as the front-to-back span. Option B has more legs and more support, but uses more material and more welding makes it more difficult to keep it dead straight. May also be a bit overkill? Legs only 600mm apart and each supporting ~220kg. Option C seems like a good in-between, legs 800mm apart and 275kg each, but unless more horizontal supports are added it leaves an area of 1100x730mm supported only by the 25mm ply I plan on putting on top. Is this ok with 15mm glass? Not sure...

If you don't have that or some sort of written history of the change in dimensions it could turn into a he-said she-said type debate and you'll get nowhere. Good luck...

Yeah they're great little fish, so often bagged for all the wrong reasons! I'd love to get some of the different wild strains (here I go again) available elsewhere, I'd love to have a little CA biotyope with a pair, or perhaps an all-male colony. I think this was one of the first fish my wife showed a real interest in, little "pinkles"...

Mulfords Plastics by Silvia Park have an offcuts bin, should be able to get a piece of suitable clear perspex/acrylic for $5-15 if you're out that way.

Agreed, I'll be seriously reconsidering any donations to the SPCA if that is how they are going to spend it. If they've got that kind of money to burn they should be offering desexed kittens to the public far cheaper than they currently do and euthanising the strays. I'm not exactly sure what desexing and the associated post-op care costs, but I bet its a darn site more than a double dose of anesthetic to "put them to sleep".

TBH I wouldn't try a comm in that tank, especially since you already have one nice big aro. Better off having one perfect fish than 5 with torn fins... Have a read of this thread, you know you want to go bigger... http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... project%29 :bggrn: