Pies

T5 are smaller tubes. The 'older' fat fluros are 'T12', the newer slimmer and most commin fluro are T8, the new ones are T5. The T5s are the same size as the energy saver bulbes. I have 5ft T5s in 80W (6000k and Blue). Yeah we will prolly go with normal T8s because of cost. I am currently using a mixtrue of 6000k & 6500k bulbs from OSRAM I think. The 6000k was $8 and the 6500 about $15 from memory. Do you use or have you tried using an 03 blue actinic on your freshwater for colour definition? If so do you still, how did it look?

Reef. As you know I use T5s for my marines and am failry happy with them. The problem is getting them at a reasonable price, and getting bulb replacements when nessessary. If you know anywhere to get some let me know. Warren: Thanks for that. Very good advice by the looks of it. I'll read through that article and no doubt talk to you before going ahead. Cheers Pies

Some good advice for sure, thanks Rob. As this is a 'merger' of tanks, there will actually be 8 clown loaches! As well as the several other species I have. Ohh and I know all about the horseshoe shaped holes :> I have been using c02 for 3 years with good results, and your right about to much growth of some stem plants. As with the caniser filters, we all ready have a c02 system so will use it. Although water fertilisation/iron addition is going to be done much differently I think with this tank (dosing pumps - persistelic will be used I think). I currently use 2-3mm gran gravel with laterite and clay in the sand bed (with 2cm sand along the bottom). You are right about the raised gravel level looking weird, so it can be important to have a high beval accross the front to disguise it. I'm an avid water tester, and am happy to combat PH/KH issues. Good advice on light, we will have heaps, all t8 tubes (unless some cheap T5 present themselves) 6500 & 6000k and maybee 1 03 actinic. Cheers Pies

I already use a sump for the saltwater and it works out really well. The problem I see with a sump is the design of the overflows, as taking water only from the surface is not going aid mechnical filteration very much as none of the gunk on the bottom will be taken out. Also the gaps for the water to flow through would have to be very small to prevent small fish going over them, so the water passing though the sump would be too little. Clogging up anything with the amount of plant I will have is also a concern. Sumps work well in the semi sterile environment of saltwater, but not sure if its the right move for freshwater, just too much to worry about. We already have the 4 canister filters so intend on reusing them. If anyone uses a sump type of system / wet dry I would like to see a plumbing diagram or some photos. So back to me questions, anyone?

As I have embarked on a Marine tank, I have neglected my freshwater completely. Jane, my partner is going to bring her fish and add them to my 400 litre freshwater tank. Which is going to become a sump for my marine tank. So a new freshwater tank is planed. Not sure on size yet, will be no less than 5 ft, no more than 8.5ft. I will be 500-600 front to back, and 550 deep. Freshwater tropical, planted, c02, well lit. Here is what is planed - 4 Filters will be used, 2x 300 watt heaters, 6 deep fluro tubes (thats six between front and back, depending on size the fluros will match). I will dose iron/fertiliser daily. The inhabitants will be comunity, carinals, upside down cats, congo tetras, clown loachs, hatchet fish, corydoras etc. Moderate load is expected, but not a PACKED tank. I want input for a sand bed. How deep, what to use etc. Clay? Sand? Gravel? What to use to enrich the bed etc. Warren I am keen to hear from you here. Drilled tank for plumbing. I am NOT going to use those awefull hand over the back glass, pipes everywhere filter piping. I am going to drill 8 holes in the back glass (4 intakes 4 outlets for the 4 filters to be used). Anyone done this? Let have it! Mark & Jane

conf t. I guess your nickname suggests what you do for a living Sounds good. I too have dived on some fairly awesome reefs around the world. And although NZ has some 'good' diving, I don't think it has anything on any of the temprate/tropical locations. Ultimatly this is why tropical marine is more popular than cold/temprate marine. Something to keep in mind is going to be circulation too. You are going to need a larger number of cirulation pumps to get water churning. There are some nice big coldwater setups in Picton, and in Chrischurch (town square in the information centre), and Wellington (over the road from the 'pump house' dive spot Island Bay) if you wanted to visit them. Also Napier. All of these (with the exception of Christchurch) ciruclate ocean water, so if you are not on the ocean then you will need protien skimming etc et al. Seaweed is possilbe, but with strong current and high nutrient levels. For advice, check out www.reefcentral.com. They have a forum for 'large tanks', 3000L I think is the minumium size too so well worth a look for plumbing ideas etc. As for stock. Crayfish are fairly nasty, but look quite good. I wouldn't worry about having 2-3 of them. As you dive, get a big whitebait net or something and a team of guys (i'll come out and help). Butter fish, big schools of harings or yellow tailed koheru would look awesome. Scroppian fish too, if you wanted to road trip up north. Leather jackets, brittle stars etc. Not sure what was ment by 'live rock' as the rock in NZ is not very pourus, and has no similarity to live coral rock used with Marines. I do think that Tropical Marines would look much better, espeically and invert tank. Although your 10K probably would only cover the lighting Good luck. Pies

Once water is in the tank you should be fine. If you have a piece to big, i've got some stuff, perhapps swap if you like? Keep the sand bed shallow, this is factual and my biggest mistake. Reef warned me, I didn't listen. Now I am syphoning out some. Ira, I will give you some 'live sand' from my tank to help seed it if you want. Sounds like its all comming together. Let me know what tubes you end up buying and what prices. Remeber if you get them from a trade store like MASTER TRADE ask for 30% off cash trade. You will get it, no problem but they won't offer it to you. This is what I do "You guys give me 30%", "sure". No drama. See you tommorow. pies

SOG! Yeah sog are OK, but they are very quite expenive in some areas. I have brought some bits and bots from them, but there halides were not suitable for the price (could get something designed for less). But it is a good place to get stuff from and the online shop is quite good. Lights, as reef said, the 5000k bulbs that come with those units are not going to be much good for anything cept growing algae. You will want 6500k with the majority of people using 10K plus blue actinic. The units themself looked fine. Reef has some metal halide lights for sale, and the price is good and they come with BLV bulbs too which are not cheap. I purchased my Halides from Reef, and if I decide to upgrade to 400 watt (eh reef? I would be happy to use the same again. Above the tank sump. This is fine, infact other than the inconvienance this is prefrable than bellow tank plumbing. If you decide to build a refugiem section into you sump, gravity fed is good as none of the little critters get killed by all that pumping Sounds like your on track, but the usual disclaimer applies. If you don't have the budget to see it through, your not going to have much luck or fun. My advice, save your pennies, buy as you go. Get eveything ready before starting the tank off. The temptation to add, and most likley kill, live stock will be too much. One thing i've learnt is patience is so important with marines, far more important than in freshwater. e.g. When I was in Auckland a while ago, I visited Reefs tank (AWESOME monster reef, one of the nicest tanks you will ever see). Reef then took me to his friends house, another monster tank, must have been close to 1500 litres. The guy (Dave) said he fully cycled the tank for 9 months before adding any life to the tank at all. 9 months! His tank was a stunner, and he had great success. his seceret, patience. Enough preaching from me. Good luck with it. Pies

Lighting is a tuff one, and experances differ from tank to tank, person to person. A good fried uses 150 watts and has lifted them because the tank was getting too much light, others I know are exactly the oposite. Fluro tubes are fine for some Actinic lighting (blue), other than that light it up with halides all the way. Fluros just don't pump enough light, or light the tank to the correct spectrum. Halides are better value per watt/luman and increase the number of corals you can try. My tank is similar in size to yours, and I use 4x 5ft T5 (80w ea) + 2x 250 halides. I am considering a lighting upgrade to 250-400-250 or 250-250-250 or 400-400 maybee even 400-400-400 but this is unlikley. Bottom line, you won't EVER have enough light for the reef, no matter what you see, read or hear. If you think you will be able to squeeze through with a little less, you won't. Chiller. Heat is a problem if halide lighting is being used. Chillers seem an obvious soultion. I am in this boat at the moment, but am resisting the purchase in the hope of doing something else. Drilling the tank is a must if you want to run a sump, also reccomended. Drilling a pre-made tank however may well be impossilbe. You can get special hangon weirs etc for this situation, but as layton said, they are frought with danger. Gravity stays on even when the power doesn't. The problems are complex, but often these systems fail in power off or power on situations. I would drill it. There are so many new issues when a sump is employed i wouldn't risk anything at all. Its hard enough sleeping as it is. You can buy or borrow drill bits and do it yourself, this doesn't need to be done by a professional, but is reccomended. If you try and drill yourself, remeber you need to drill from both sides, take your time, use lots of water for lubricant. Trust me, the last thing you want to see at 8am on Monday morning is 250 litres of salt water on the carpet. And yes, I am speaking from experance. Ohhh plastic sumps are excellent and used by many. Easy to drill, cheap and unlikley to break. Just watch out having a heater in there you wouldn't want to melt a hole... Pies

Yes you can get aquairum chillers. Like Ira sais they are very common on reef tanks with mucho lighting. Strongly disagree with Iras comments that they are expesnive and only used by rich people. I know many people in NZ, and many more overseas with chillers. Infact, if things get any hotter here, I may buy one myself. They people I know that have them are far from rich, including myself. Its just another essential piece of equipment for many people. They can be purchased for around the $1000.00 NZ. High tempratures can kill a marine tank. Litterally kill them. If your paying $100 NZ for a piece of coral, or have grown your $25.00 frag into a colonly, having it die too heat is an expesnive problem. Not only does it cost you the coral, you will need to replace it, and your heat problem still exists.

Web site update is on the list. Including photos of the bristles stuck in my finger from a bristle worm!

Well did a bit of mantenance on the tank last night. Changed 80L of water. Syphoned out some sand. Scarped the overflows clean of algae, and removed a few aipstasia from the overflows (AWKWARD). Moved some corals, cleaned some corals and a clam. Syphoned out about 6 flat worms. Removed some alage growing on a rock. Re-postitioned a water pump. Scrubbed the algae of the return plumbing. Added about 6 snails to the display tank. Replaced a carbon bag. Cleaned the glass. Was so tired last night. More today! Today I have another 80L of water to change. I will aslo replace my PHOSPHATE resins. I'm going to kill some Aipstasia. And if I get keen I am going to FRAG off some pulsing xenia onto another rock and see if I can get 2 colinies going. I might also frag up an Acropora or 2. The tank looks so different after a clean! More maintenace this weekend including adding a sea swirl and changing some plumbing. Maybee some major changes to plumbing, see how it all goes. Pies

You guys must live in igloos or in a cave? 2x 300watt for a 600L tank. 1 Watt a Litre is a LOT of heating. EBO JAGAR (sp?) can be calabrated for perfect accuracy. The are expensive though, and i have no experance with them. Visitherm heaters are 6/6 in my book so far.

Yeah man, loosing anything suxor as far as I am concerned. Hope you go OK with the poc, they are a very pretty coral (I have one, but its never grown, just stays the same...). Good luck with the resotation process. At least you have some aquscaping options You said you had a chiller. Was it connected and running at the time? I have seen some controllers, and know a few people interested in them. 1 montior (I think 3 temp probes), and its either runs the heater or chiller, thats it. 1 is going or the other, with a 1 deg 'sweet spot'. I live in fear of something like that happening to me. I've just done big tank maintenance today, after reading you post its forced me into action. Got an ice-cream container full of alagem calurpa and other assorted shit. Also did 80L water change. Might do another 80L this weekend, then another 80L later in the week, since i'll be on holiday Good luck

As pet my post in saltwater fourm, DARK is on the right track. I went to a fish auction by one of the clubs here. Dozens of 300watt heaters. I run a 300watt on my 700 liter reef, with 250 litres of plumbing, and I will downgrade it to a 250 and see how it goes. Use the correct heater for the tank, and you will find your heaters lasting longer. YMMV. Pies

Thats a real shame about what happened to your tank, and your coral. I know you don't want to hear 'what ifs', but I have taken 'heater insurance' out for my tank. I use 2 very small heaters that struggle to hold tank as temprature (e.g. are on most of the time), so if it gets stuck, it would be unable to heat the tank by itself. This is a most common problem, a heater is stuck on because its been switching on and off and the thermistat sticks. It turns on and off so much because its to powerful. Only the biggest tanks need 300 watt heates (1000 liter of water, unless its a very cold location). I suggest dropping down to 200 watt or even 150. You may find more consistant water temratures and its helps avoid problems like the one described in this thread. Layton - How is the damage looking now? Is everything comming right? What sort of heater costs $250.00??? Or did you have it gold plated Hope it all comes right. Pies

Don't worry about it, pumps get hot, lots of friction. I have an IWAKI pump in my tank that gets so hot you could easily burn yourself. I looked at the manifacturer web site and it says "you should be able to put you hand on the pump for at least 5 seconds without being burned, this is normal..." . Nice one, if you get burnt eairy its failing, if you get burnt late its normal....

It doesn't look like a bad price at all. Placemakers sell 6500k screw/bayonet PCs like that (not as big) for about $5ea. I suspect that you will be better of with just normal fluro tubes? You can buy 6500 daylight tubes (t8) for less than $15.00 and 6000k Daylight for less than $10.00. There are a lot of 2nd hand halides in auckland, or new for $250 with bulbs (which are over $125ea), all wired and ready to go with reflectors. You will also want to use at least 1 blue light, the best a phillips "03 actinic blue". You can get these from lame specialists and they are about $30.00 for a 4ft from memory. From an athestic pointof view, halide lights provide 'glitter lines' accross the tank, which look very cool. You don't get them with fluros. I would just go with fluros first, and then after its been up and running you can decide what to do. A lot of people use t8s and nothing else in shallow tanks to great effect. Remember its only for some coral that you need the super lighting system, otherwise all that will happen is the light energy will fuel algae. Mushroom anomnes, some stoney corals etc all like the less intense subdued lighting provided by not using halide anyway.

Stop the attitude, stop the name calling. IRA. REEF is making a point (just not very well). Keeping marines is expensive, and the costs will climb as you learn more and need more for them. The point is that if you don't have the budget to see it through, you will fail. I have seen REEFs tank, and its one of the most successful tanks in NZ, REEF also spends more time than anyone else I know of helping others sort out there tanks when they crash. I know that the biggest problem he runs into is money, people just don't spend enough to allow themself to become successful. 4k may seem high for a 200L tank, but the costs will climb very quickly. You have yet to sort out a freshwater filter, water supliments and test kits, timers, lights, more rock, heating, cooling not to mention stock. 5 fish will cost at least $500.00. REEF is right, 10KG is not enough rock, get it all now, the rock is the filter and the single most important piece. It will want to cycle for months. There is no suitable rock from the ocean in NZ. I get my water from the south coast (the cook straight). I carry it in 20L jerry cans. Any other way sounds like hard work. That book Reef mentioned is excellent. TFH by Tullock and its one of the 'bibles'. I think the Hutt Pet Centre has a copy and its about $110.00 from memory.

I agree with your lack of confidence in the Hutt Pet Centre. But when it comes to buying dry goods they are pretty good, and have good selection. Graham has always been good to me, and stood by everything he has sold me, which is more than I could say for shops like Animates. Which I would NEVER purchase from again. At least, by comparison, the Hutt pet centre is cheaper. Redwood Aquatics. That sounds like a good price, is that dead white rock? Sounds good. I delt with Redwoods a few times when I got started. They sell deiased fish, in unhealthy conditions, and are unable or unwilling to make reasonable identifications of there stock. Redwood are no doubt a great place to have as a local pet store, but I found that from a mailorder arangement for them to be unfriendly, unreasonable and uninterested. I doubt they will see any of my money again. This is just my opnion, and I am sure others have different opnions, and like lots of places, they are fine unless something goes wrong. I won't deal with places like this anymore.

Yeah Graham at Hut Pet Store. This weekend, maybee for Sat late afternoon or Sunday late afternoon. I am working both days this weekend. Get the rock cycling ASAP. Put it in a bin, or anything really. Put an airstone in it and start it off. Doesn't need or want light, temrature not even that important this time of year, but stick in a heater if you want. The sump requires lots of patence to sort out, drilled glass etc, so its a real hastle. Well worth it I might add, but can understand getting frustrated with it. It tool me over 2 months to get my sump planned, and even then I only did an average job of it all. Ahhh if only I could go back in time... Give me a call before you pop over, am in Ngaio. Pies

There is no doubt that no having a sump simplifies things a lot. A sump is not run to create waterflow because of the return. It often has several advantages; more water volume, hide all heaters & filter bags, easy play to do water changes, keeps the display tank water volume at a consistant level. Not having a sump reduces your options for a skimmer too. You will have to look at bakpac type skimmer or hang on type I am guesing. Rock and sand. Although you are getting ahead of yourself, it doesn't hurt to get the rock cycling. Get Graham to order you the rock. He got some for a guy called 'Taylor' this week, I think it comes from brooklands, and there is no way to get it cheaper as he won't change your freight. Bank on about $11-12 a kg. I suggest getting as much as you can afford, certainly at least 20 kg (hard to know, as differnt pieces have diffrerent weights). Tell Gramame you only want big bits, otherwise you will get rubble. Also I would be interested in 1 or 2 long big bits (to make some 'mountaions'). I have some rubble I can give you if you need some. Sand from the same plave. But this is where you need to be careful. To deep and you'll have problems. You really only want a dusting (1cm max). I have some here that I have syphoned out of my tank, about half a bucket, $20.00 and its yours (will also give you some live sand if you want it). Otherwise its about $55.00 a sack for $15kg. The rock will take quite a while to cycle, at least 3 months, maybee longer in a new aquairum. I'd offer to cycle some for you, but I don't have much room in my sump as am doing this for someone else right now. But we could try and squeeze some in. Hope this helps.

I used bleech for the same reason. 15% soultion. I set the filter up, with the soultion in a bucket and let it 'rinse' it self. Had to chance the soultion 3 times until it smelt fine. Then I let it rinse itself the same way for a few days before putting it back into the system. Good luck.

I grew up in Nelson. I can't think of many places in NZ I havn't been. Nelson is top, hence the reason its about the most expensive place in NZ to live. Price dictates 'quatliy of life' to a degree. e.g. compare Nelson to Taranaki... My 2 cents.

Vanautu was great. Jane and I had a great holiday, and would not hesitate to go back. We caught up with John Eastwood while there for a few drinks and a yap. My personal preferece aside, John Eastwood thinks that for various reasons fiji is better. I agree with Johns reasoning, and trust Johns judgement. Cost. There is no doubt at all that Vanautu will cost at least twice as much as Fiji from what we have seen and heard. Cost is not the only factor to consider, but I can assure you that Vanautu is expensive. Activity. To reiterate a point already made, there is very little to do in Vanautu. Diving, snorkeling & thats it. Town (port vila is the only centre on the mainland) is very small and long. We were there for 10 days, the only 2 things that I would like to have seen or done that we didn't do were go to Santo to dive on the President coolidge, and go to and look at the lava pools and active volcano. Both of these locations require a flight, and incur extra cost. Keep that in mind about Vanautu, snorkel, swim, dive, eat & drink - nothing else. This is excellent from my perspective, but may not be everyones cup of tea. Want to go to the movies? Nope. Shopping spree? Nope. Site seeing? Nope. Also the place Bruce mentioned, as Jane said is quite a way out of town, and up around a hill. Having to rely on a taxi or bus (i use these terms loosley, as you may have to stand on the back of a ute as that is what public transport is) can really put a dampner on things. I don't think that some of the older, or less adventurous members would enjoy this. Taxi everywhere is an option, just adds even more to the cost. If I had to stay in Vanautu it would be in Port Vilia (not 3 mins away by 'public transport') centre or Hideaway island. Also if Vanautu is the final destination, I will be in Santo diving anyway, there is nothing in Port Vila that I would be interested in seeing or doing again. Just my 2 cents. Whatever John Eastwood is thinks best gets my support 100%. Its going to be impossilbe to please everyone anyway, so from my perspective I don't and won't cause any disruption, and will do whatever the exec think is best for the majority of its members. Regards Mark Ellis www.homereef.co.nz