JDM Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 ok i was reading back through the forum and came accross pies thread about flat worms, i thort the picture he put up looked fimiliar, just had a look and sure enough i have thousands of flat worms on pies thread he used flat worm exit, sounds like a good product if used correctly (heaps of carbon, water change etc) my question is: why are flat worms a problem in our reef tanks and what would happen if i did nothing about them (im planing to do the exit thing tomorrow night but just interested in what effect they would have if nothing was done about them) any feedback about products you have used to fix these little guys would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I've had flat worms since early on and they don't cause any problems. they come and go in quantity, sometimes the population explodes somewhat and they can look a bit unslightly, but I keep them under control by just siphoning them out each week during my water change. Another form of nutrient export . I considered nuking them but did a bit of research on the net and found the likes of Bob Fenner on WWM saying much the same as above, just let them be, siphon them off, and learn to live with them. Pies may have a differnt view, and he may even decide to come on the board a give it to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 and be really careful with the flatworm exit, lots of horror stories out there about using it against these flatworms. there a probably dozens more flatworms for every one you see, they are toxic and can quickly kill your whole tank. take that step very carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 AS far as I know flatworm exit is the only product that works. the problem with them is they dont stop breeding and will cover everything, in the exstream they will even cover corals and kill them. Second problem is they are very toxic to corals and fish when they die, it's not unheard of for a tank full of them to suddenly decide to die and posion your tank at the same time. Be very carefull treating the tank if you have lots of them the first time I did it I had heaps, ended up killing a cleaner shrimp, purple tang, and something else (can't remember what it was). Make sure you have enough water to completely change all the water i.e. 100%, not suggesting you do it ll at once but you might need to do 2-3 large water changes in the day, plus you need to syphon out as many as you can before you start, and syphon out as many bodies as you can, so you need plently of water. Also as I understand it (and could be wrong here) when you put the treatment in, its not the amount of water in your tank that matters but the number of FW you are killing, the flatworm exit doesn't hurt your tank you can just keep adding it, so if after the 30-40 minutes you have to wait, don't be afraid to add lots more if you can still see any moving. Last tip is to do another treatment after a week, I learnt this the hard way, you will never kill them all first time round, and if you wait till you can see them again you wont kill all the new ones with that treatment either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 are you sure Suphew?? All suddenly die and poison your tank??. Never read that anywhere. Alot of very good reef tanks overseas just live with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Eric Borneman's vid had an interesting take on the whole red bug/flatworm/??? thing. I would be a bit concerned about treating my tank the amount of life you would kill off may be worse?? than having them in the first place. Are there any fish etc that eat these????? six line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Pretty much what I've read as well TM. Read up, check Wetwebmedia, reef central etc before getting carried away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 are you sure Suphew?? All suddenly die and poison your tank??. Never read that anywhere Just something I have heard dont know where, guess it may be a myth. I would be a bit concerned about treating my tank the amount of life you would kill off may be worse?? than having them in the first place. Pretty sure flatworm exit doesn't hurt anything else in the tank, which is a shame, it would be good it it killed pesty nudi's as well. Anything else that dies is because of the toxins released by the flatworms. From what I have seen the people that have had problems haven't removed as many FW as possible before they got started. Myself included. Are there any fish etc that eat these????? six line? Yep have heard that some six lines will eat them, when pies had FW's he had none in his display but plently in his sump. So some thing in the display must have been eating them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Best way to deal with flatworms is to deal with them as soon as you see them. I have treated my tank many times with flatworm exit and have never lost any fish. Flatworm exit is completely safe, it is the flatworms that cause problems when they died, it is a very good idea to maybe remove corals and dip them in freshwater for 1 min and then put them back and treat the tank. before treating the tank turn your sump off, take out 20% water from the tank and have the water that you removed ready to put back after 20 mins, also add carbon after 20 mins, turn on sump Retreat tank in a few days. And maybe again in a week however you don’t need to change water or add carbon this time as you should not have any. The treatment is just to make sure. It you have flatworms it is normally a sign of high nutrients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 i bought flat worm exit, it scared me just reading the instructions. i gave it away for free and waited. the population increased and then collapsed for no apparent reason. i still have minute amounts of them in the tank but so what. they don't seem to harm anything really unless you kill them and will decrease in numbers in time. just wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 same thing with me CE. The population grew, collapsed and now there are just patches of them. Most are in the refugium, where the flow is lower High nutrients Reef, maybe, but I don't have a high nutrient tank now and still small patches of flatworms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Pretty sure flatworm exit doesn't hurt anything else in the tank, which is a shame, it would be good it it killed pesty nudi's as well. Anything else that dies is because of the toxins released by the flatworms. From what I have seen the people that have had problems haven't removed as many FW as possible before they got started. Myself included Maybe i am thinking of the treatment for red bugs???? I have never had a problem with flat worms, maybe the six line and the mandarin help keep them under control????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Once I did a treatment, I syphoned all I could see each day, and did this for several days. Then I thought I'd got most of them so did the treatment, and could not believe how many flatworms just seemed to appear out of nowhere and swirl around the tank dieing. Frantic work with the syphon trying to get all them out fast as I could too. Had a nice looking Royal Dottyback in the tank, the morning after treatment his colours had really faded, he was no longer his beautiful self. I thought he would get his colours back, but he never did, stayed like that several years. Don't think it was the flatworm exit it would have been the flatworm poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raeh1 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I have some flat worm exit... You can use some... that will FRICKem. I'll look for da instructions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Flatworm exit is completely safe, it is the flatworms that cause problems when they died, it is a very good idea to maybe remove corals and dip them in freshwater for 1 min and then put them back and treat the tank. . hi reef, what will diping the corals in fresh water do? :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 High nutrients Reef, maybe, but I don't have a high nutrient tank now and still small patches of flatworms. That is maybe why you only have patches of them, they have to be feeding on something. I have had flatworms when i have been overfeeding for some time, Seen many tanks with flatworms and all have had excess nutrients. low nurients means they have no food so they are limit in numbers, high nutrients and they have lots of food to multiply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 hi reef, what will diping the corals in fresh water do? It kills them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I have some flat worm exit... You can use some... that will FRICKem. I'll look for da instructions... i might take you up on that offer, i am leaning towards using it as im not sure if i like the idea of having something in my tank that could potentally become a serious problem if they all die, i guess flat worm exit is a controled "bomb" to kill them so you know when it will happen and can be prepared to deal with it, rather that if for some reason they die and your not prepared. still on the fence a little, what would cause flat worms to die out of the blue? if its a nutrient problem and i reduce the nutrients in my tank (which i would like to) will this cause a mass death and then a toxic blume? i will syphin out as may as i can see, that will at least be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 siphon them out over two days, once you have siphoned them out on day one blast the rocks with a power head to see how many more come out, then siphon on the second day and then treat as per my instructions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I've had waves of flatworms. Kill them off, they come back, kill them, they come back, kill them, they come back. They were starting to build up again until my tank crashed and I think that wiped out a lot of them. I can't find any anymore at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I've had waves of flatworms. Kill them off, they come back, kill them, they come back, kill them, they come back. I had the same problem until I did the second dose after a week, haven't seen any since and that was 3-4 months ago. I'm not sure how they breed, maybe they lay eggs that arn't killed by the treatment and waiting a few days allows them to hatch but not breed again?? JDM I would still treat them now if I was you, you could leave them but if you do and they keep increasing its just going to get more risky to treat them later, my two cents worth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 i have decided i will remove as many as i can today and tomorrow and then use the exit! i will be following reef's instructions, but i have a small question, dose the 20% water that i took out while doseing with exit (then return to the tank after 20min) remove the need for a water change? i would guess a water change after all will not do any harm. THANKYOU ALL for your help. this site can be such a great tool for objective disscusion's that newbees and more experanced reefers can learn from. im very pleased, nothing quite like an informed decision! :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Yes, a good discussion. Just be aware of the reasons some people promote some products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Just be aware of the reasons some people promote some products. .. Which they are not allowed to do if they are a commercial concern and in the middle of a non-commercial discussion thread.. Just a reminder guys.. Mods are watching. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted June 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 yeah that thort did cross my mind but i figure if he has used it, it must be good stuff, and there aint that much money involved so selling one more wont make him rich. :lol: and i dont mind supporting a very helpful guy. :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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