Itchy fishies!

[Caper]

29 gallon tank:

Fish are still scratching (not just an occassional scratch) & my mickey mouse platy's fins are clamped and he is "resting" a lot! As I posted somewhere else here I've been trying to get the medication I used last year when I had this trouble with him. I have tried everywhere, even called WalMart to see if they could get it in for me since they do carry some of the "Jungle Lab" products, but they couldn't :evil:

The stuff I used before was to treat internal & external parasites: active ingredients, in case any of you recognize them, were praziquantel; N-{{(4-Chlorophenyl)amino}carbon 1}2, 6-difluorobenzamide: metronidazole; acriflavine.

As a last resort I went to see if there was anything else I could get, the only thing was by "Jungle Lab" called parasite guard for external parasites, active ingredients: sodium chloride, trichlorfon, diflubenzuron.

This stuff is a powder, states to maintain strong aeration, & remove carbon.

Hope I'm not going to end up doing more harm than good

[sharn]

scratching is normally a sign of external irritants, most often gill/body flukes but can be related to nitrate too i think, theres a few reasons around but those are the most common ones i personally come across. im not sure what you use to treat them, some use formalin but alot of people use the Prazi for flukes

[Discusguru]

Hi Caper,

Parasite Guard will be OK to use for fluke and external stuff.

Ron

[Caper]

Thanks

Parasite Guard will be OK to use for fluke and external stuff

That's a relief Ron, I went on the net last night to see if I could find out what the ingredients were...scared the heck out of me. Then all my tetras went really pale, then the guppies & platties, well a couple that I noticed anyway, would "sit" on the bottom, thought they were dying...but awhile later swimming around like usual.

I was scared that I might wake up this morning to a tank full of dead fishies But still alive! When I came home from work today, most of the guppies colour was back to normal and the fish that were "sitting" when I left this morning, swimming around The scratching is still going on from what I've seen so far. The directions say can treat 2 more times, with weekly intervals & 25% water change.

My only concern is what if it is internal parasites, darn...wish I could get the Parasite Clear as it was for both. Anyway, I'll just have to wait & see if this works. Although, Saturday I might call one of the big pet stores in Halifax to see if they carry it and if I can get...just in case.

THANKS AGAIN folks

[Caper]

My poor fishies are not getting any better. I treated with the Parasite Guard on Wednesday and it is now Saturday here.

I don't even know if its parasites but considering all the scratching & nothing else visible, don't you folks think its a strong possibility.? This is the same behavior last year when I had fishies scracthing. I suppose just like human illnesses, same kinds of symptoms for different illnesses. I just wish fish could talk!

The fishies are still eating and swimming. Some, at times, will sit on the bottom or rest in the artificial plants. I have even seen them pointing themselves towards the corner where the bubbles come up from the airstone and staying there for periods of time, any ideas why they could be doing this? Is it possible that the water flow from it is giving them some kind of relieve, or does this mean the oxygen it too low

But the good news is, after a very frustrating search around here & a couple of phone calls to pet stores that are on the mainland, I am getting the Parasite Clear. I called my daughter in Calgary to see if she could get it out there & send it to me. Turns out that a pet store close to where she lives HAS IT. YIPPIE, Tracy to the rescue Unfortunately with it being the weekend, I probably won't get it until Tuesday, she's sending it by courier.

[Luke*]

Hi Caper, didn't realise you had kids, coming in useful tho yeah?

I just treated two of my discus tanks for flukes because they had been scratching for quite a while. Sounds like flukes to me in which case praziquantel is best as it kills flukes and fluke eggs. As it is very difficult to get that here I treated with potassium permanganate, 2mg/litre (a teaspoon holds 7g), treat 4 hours minimum. Used at this concentration it won't kill your biofilter so you can leave your filter going. It's now 12 hours after treatment and all are looking good. You can get it from a chemist. Good luck.

[Caper]

didn't realise you had kids

Yup, 3! Craig, he'll be 28 next month, Ryan, he'll be 24 next month & Tracy turned 21 in October...oh my, they are getting old, but I'm not :lol: :lol: :lol: And, my 4th pride & joy, my grandson Brayden, who is 9 months old. He's staying with me tonight & I just put him to bed, so he's not impressed with me at the moment. His daddy has him spoiled because he rocks him to sleep :evil: My 2 sons live around here & Tracy in Calgary.

Anyway, back to fishies so how are your discus doing?

Sounds like flukes to me in which case praziquantel

Yes, the Parasite Clear has this in it! I believe it saved my platy last year which is why I was so desperate to get it. See, no big pet stores here so not much to buy & since I felt comfortable with Parasite Clear I wanted to use it again.

Thanks Luke...and good luck to as well with your discus, keep us informed on how they are doing

OMG...I was on my way to bed doing my last check on my fishies...now, it appears that my tetras have Ick...AND...my pleco who hasn't been moving much all evening, actually staying near the bottom on the front of the tank...using the magnifying glass, on his belly looks almost like a thin layer of white, I don't know if this is the beginning of some kind of fungus, but it also looks like it is "peeling" off him.

I have "Ick Guard" that I used when my goldfish had Ick when I first had him. On the directions, it read to use 1/2 strength on weak fish. So, do I treat????

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO, please help! I already had my last black neon die tonight.

[Fingol]

Hi Caper

Just posting to say good luck and that I hope your fishies get better soon. Can't add anything useful myself; I just haven't got the experience.

[sharn]

plecos, being 'scaleless', sometimes need half doses of certain meds, not sure if parastie clear can be dosed normally or not though so wait for someone else on that one. ive also read that they can shed if they are stressed? not a pleco expert so not sure how true it is. hope things work out with your fishies!!

[Caper]

Thanks Fingol

Chong, my pleco didn't make it I think I killed him , the directions on the bottle only said to remove snails & crustaceans, nothing on it about scaleless fish I didn't even recognize from the ingredients that it contained salt

I did treat with the Ick Guard last night before I went to bed. I will do a 25% water change tonight, as is recommended, unless you folks think I should do more?

What is so frustrating is that a few people that I have encountered here that have tanks, don't do things like, (e.g. add chlorine/chloramine remover, weekly water changes, test the water and so on and so on). I was even talking to a lady one day who said she pretty much throws anything in the tank in regard to food scraps. I really don't know what I did to cause all this trouble. It is rare that I don't do a weekly water changes and only once did I miss the monthly cleaning.

I've been racking my brains trying to think if I did anything different. The only thing I can think of is that I add warm water to the cold water to take the chill out but then I get my water ready the day before I do the change. I've only had fishies for a little over a year now & last winter I didn't do that. But I've been doing it quite a bit this winter, maybe I should not have done that?????

[Zev]

Oh Caper, sounds like you are having a few problems, whatever happens, don't dispair, there are plenty of people over here hoping for a speedy recovery.

I noticed that you have been doing the salt thing, have you allowed your tank to return to 'normal' before putting more meds in?

One may be conteracting the other, or causing a buildup of something in paritcular that is compounding your problems.

Someone more knowledgeable in the meds line may be able to help.

What temp is your tank? Is the water you are putting back when you do a water change a similar temperature?

[sharn]

It is rare that I don't do a weekly water changes and only once did I miss the monthly cleaning.

im confused (it dosent take much though :lol: ), do you do weekly water changes or is it the people youve met who dont do them?

dont beat yourself up caper, im pretty sure everyone whos ever kept fish has had a illness in their tank at some time or another. hang in there, your doing your best

[Caper]

Thanks all

encountered here

I better clarify that...I mean here where I live, not on this site

Zev, what I meant by the salt is that the Parasite Guard (PG) contained salt. It was only 4 days after treating with this that I discovered the Ick, I have no doubt a result of the stress. I think I screwed up though, the directions for the PG said wait 6 days before retreating. I thought I had read somewhere, not here on this site, that I could mix the 2 kinds of meds. I did do a 25% water change before treating with Ick medication, but I also panicked when I saw the Ick & thought if I didn't get that under control all my fish would be dead

The temp in my tank is almost 74. I don't take the temp of the water I'm adding, a big mistake I guess but I never did. One time I would just let it sit in the containers for a couple of days & it is only recently that I started using some warm water to take the cold chill away. I thought by doing that I was getting it to room temp and that would be okay, but I'm wrong aren't I What is the best thing to do in that aspect? I don't have the heat turned on anymore in my apartment. So, should I get a thermometer & test the water before putting in my tank? And, if it isn't close (a couple of degrees either way is ok???) is it safe to add the warm water from hot water tap???

Mickey, my mickey mouse platy didn't make it

Nope Sharn, I do weekly water changes with occasionally missing a week but that is rare.

Thanks all for your support, it really means a lot to me.

[sharn]

cool, so water changes are ok. i feel sorry for the peoples fishies who only do monthly water changes

it depends on how picky the fish are that you keep i suppose with heating water, some people have never in their lives heated water when they add it to their tanks however i always have. we wouldnt like cold air being blown over us when we're warm so itd be the same for our fishies :lol:

i boil my jug, pour that into a bucket and then add cold water from my tap until it feels about right (finger test, a few degrees out wont hurt much at all). then i add all my other bits and into the tank it goes. the reason i dont use the hot tap is i think we may have copper pipes which can add icky stuff the the water i think. if you dont have copper pipes you will probably be able to use the hot tap.

dont worry about not doing it before, half of the time its not even a problem but if they got a bit sick it might have bought on the ick cause they were stressed, im not sure.

sorry bout your platy it sucks when you go thru bad patches with your fish aye, went thru it a while back but it does get better *rubs capers back*

giddy up girl, everything will be ok soon enough!

[Caper]

*rubs capers back*

Thanks Sharn

I received an email back from Jungle Labs, they said it was ok to mix the meds. They recommended lots of aeration so I did add another air stone and to keep doing the 25% water changes before each treatment. I have to wait 24 hours before using the Ick Guard which means I have to stay up till 1 a.m.

Lost a neon today

Okay, the pipes leading from the hot water tank are copper, so I take it that means I can't add any water from the hot water tap, right? I thought this dechlorinator/chloramine stuff was supposed to remove all harmful chemicals so does that mean copper isn't/can't be removed with this stuff?

Sharn, how much water to you warm on the stove, roughly?

As you all are aware I have not real plants only artificial plants. If I remove all (which would be the best) or at least most of them to make it easier since I have to do a good gravel vac with each water change would removing all of them cause even more stress, what do you folks recommend?

I really don't know what I would do without you folks, your knowledge, help and support is what's keeping me going right now

[sharn]

i use a electric jug to heat my water, heating 50-100L for each tank wouldnt be an easy thing on the stove :lol:

thats a good point bout the copper and de-chlorinator, im not sure to be honest but i hope someone can answer that for us.

i would pull the plants up out of the substrate but not remove them completely, the fish might freak not having as much places to hide as they did before. but pulling them up will make them easy to push around during the siphons but they will still be in there, just my two cents on that

hope things start getting on the up for you, maybe the fishies will decide they better start getting well for a nice mothers day gift?

[Caper]

i use a electric jug

What do you mean by that?

The water conditioner I use states: "Neutralizes chemicals harmful to fish", it also states "neutralizing chlorine and heavy metals" (chloramine as well).

I have emailed the company explaining that copper pipes lead from my hot water tank and if their product would...shoot, *what did I say*...anyway, something about make it safe from that as well.

I know nothing about metals, copper and such, does anybody know if copper is considered a heavy metal and what do you think the chances are that it would make my water safe from copper. Although, why is copper bad as well for fishies? I don't really remember but I thought I read somethings here about it but I think I may have thought it was only dangerous if it was being used for pipes directly connected to tanks.

I didn't add any warm water from my tap last night. When I added the water to the tank tonight, the temp went down almost 2 degrees.

Lost 5 fish now . I don't think any of the neons are going to make it

[craig]

hi caper,

hey is this the same tank,that you mentioned in the freshwater,under foul smell?

if yes that could possibly be where the problem started.

it takes ick 2-3 wks to actually show the spots,when the spots arrive it is when the parasite is leaving the fish.

medication overload at the moment.

if it was me i would give tank a 50% waterchange/vacume,raise temp to 28 degrees and treat with a whitespot cure,cross-fingers and toes. add xtra airation.

i hope things work out for you and your fishies.

cheers shell

[JoandWilly]

If it was the foul smelling tank could also be a nitrate problem, as the nitrate increases it irritate's the fish and cause's them to itch, one of our smaller tanks that is a lil over crowded start itching on the rocks everytime i leave them a lil longer than there usually water change and when i test the nitrates they are up around 40ppmish and 50ppm is the limit before it can cause major problems.

[craig]

yep, joandwilly are onto it, that would be enough to start all your problems,stress from nitrates/ammonia,didn't you think a fish had died and rotted away caper???then adding chemicals without really knowing what your treating.you shouldn't add chemicals unless you know what you are treating for. sometimes just adding a airstone and raiseing the water temp to 28 can bring the problem out ie spots.heat fastens up the cycle of the parasite,but always check water quality first before anything, cause if you have an ammonia level and then raise temperature,it will intensify the ammonia. but don't panick caper we have all done this at sometime or another.

we have all learnt valuable lessons in fishkeeping in the early days of doing it,some very exspensive lessons.

me i'm still learning.

shell.

[Caper]

Thanks all

I emailed the company about their product and copper, but I won't hear back for a few days as they are temp off their emailing whatever

Yes, this is the same tank that had the foul smell...and the sailfin molly that up & disappeared!

I never made a connection to any of this as the root of my fishies problems. I'd actually have to go back here to see when all of this mess started.

I have read about Ick lots of times, and honestly don't remember reading that it could take 2-3 weeks for the spots to appear, shoot!

I don't like putting meds in either especially when I can't see anything wrong. But when the scratching first started, not many fish and not doing it a lot, so at the time not too worried, considering one time if a fish scratched at all I panicked till I learned here, thanks Bill, that fish do sometimes scratch!

Anyway, as it got worse, I knew it was more than just an "itch" and because I couldn't see anything visible and when my platy was doing all the scratching last year (again nothing was visible) I treated with the med for internal/external parasites and it saved him, although he didn't make it this time .

So, if it takes that long for the Ick parasite to appear and you're fish are scratching what is the first line of attack????? Of course, the first being test water

[craig]

hi caper,

first line of defence,after checking water quality is to raise the temperature to 28 and add extra airline,as the hotter the tank the less oxygen,it will hasten the cycle and out will pop spots,then you treat.

cheers shell.

[JoandWilly]

i would recommend checking your nitrates first aswell, if you can't seen any visible signs on there body, it can't really be a skin parasite otherwise after a while they would show sores or the parasite, so my guess is the gills so unless you have a gill parasite my bet would be on high nitrate's even smallish amounts 20+ will irritate some fish if they are used to low amounts.

[SpidersWeb]

So, should I get a thermometer & test the water before putting in my tank? And, if it isn't close (a couple of degrees either way is ok???) is it safe to add the warm water from hot water tap???

What I do is mix hot/cold water in a bucket, until it feels the same temperature, I don't go so far as to use a thermomteter, but definately try to keep it as close as I can. Then I stir in some water conditioner, and then some Stress Zyme, add to tank, and repeat until its full again. Working and has worked for me in the past

Also I run/ran my tanks in the 78-82 range which I was recommended years ago to do to reduce fungus/disease, not sure how true that is but I haven't had any problems since doing so.

Good luck with the fishies!

[Caper]

Thanks all

checking your nitrates

Can't get nitrate test kit around here. Although, there is a new small pet supply store that just opened, I was in before but he didn't have anything in for fish as yet I might take a scoot over tomorrow to see if he has them.

What I do is mix hot/cold water in a bucket

I'm using 4L jugs now as anything heavier was too hard on my back. But the hot water you use, does it come from your tap? Are your pipes coming out of the hot water tank made of copper?

Update on fishies...

No deaths today :P ...white spots are almost gone, at least I think hard to see, not one of the neons will get close enough for me to see (maybe that is a good sign) can't see any on my platy, guppy...the sailfin might be a couple on tail but not sure, again won't get close and when he does won't stay still with his "are you going to feed us dance". Although, I did notice one guppy (who had no Ick on him) still scratching, not as much though.

Anyway, I'll try to see if I can spot any on them (how lame, no pun intended) tomorrow & if not I'll treat 3 more days.

Good news for me & my fishies...I'm going looking tomorrow to see what I can get to use for a quarantine tank I'm finally going to be able to get one!

I truly, truly appreciate all the help and support...I think I may have given up if not for you folks here...THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH