dogmatix Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Great post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 PS: Wasp - Why stop at 2? Have you considered quads? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Or two heads... which means two mouths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Personally, I dont think corals are the same as anemones. Anemones have mouths and actually eat, they also have a foot that wanders around. More like an animal to me. But other than that, i dont really give a rats ass, so long as they generally survive it, than i guess it dont matter. I wouldnt do it, just like i wouldnt cut a fish. A coral is simply like a tree. Just a bit of pruning here and there. and Im no wuss, Its just my opinion. Cut away..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Ha Ha! The humor on this site is one of the things that keeps me coming back! :lol: WOW! Wasp this is the best post i've ever seen on this forum. PieThank you Pies . You are a scholar and a gentleman! thanks alot Wasp (evil looking knife tho :lol: )If you think that is scary you do not want to see my wife chopping up the pork bones with it! Truly the stuff of nightmares! :lol: :lol: Have you had any failed splits? That is a nasty looking knifeSadly yes, I've lost a few but only ever one half not both. In each case it was when I was lazy and did not put the new splits into optimum conditions to recover. I am sure that 95% of it is about putting the new splits into pristine water & clean surroundings, provided they do not get infected they will invariably recover. can any anemone be cut I've only ever done it on BTA's the conventional wisdom is it cannot be done on many other species. However I am hoping to give it a shot on something like an LTA, as these anemones sometimes recover from nasty powerhead injuries and similar, I think it may be possible to split them. Is one for sale? You can have one but I'll hold them until they are eating first. It looks cruel, is it possible to do it a slow way, like a really tight rubber band right around the middle, could that make it want to split?? just a random idea Very good question. However like they say no brain no pain! A knife is easy and can get good results, so why futz with a rubber band. Wasp - Why stop at 2? Have you considered quads? Yes one thing I've tried is dividing them, then dividing again in 2 weeks, cutting through the origional scar. Did work well 100% success, but the anemones were very small & took a while to grow to a saleable size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 There You go Jetski you want yours to split.(The question is would you risk it on such a beauty) If you have the risk of only failure with one half it might be worth it) If it was mine I wouldn't knowing I had something very special. Wasp I think you are doing a great job less taken from the wild!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossco Posted March 16, 2006 Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 Its interesting...the discussion around whether they can 'feel'...last month I removed all my fishies from the tank to undergo hyposalinity in response to the WS outbreak that bowled my PB tang. This included removing my maroon clown from his/her BTA. The second night without clown the BTA moved and kept moving every night for the month the fish were in quarantine! (one night resulting in my previous post of photo of BTA stuck in my stream!!!) The fish have been back in for a fortnight and the BTA has stayed put with a big fat happy clown on top of it! I agree with the mechanical/chemical thing but the result is a very symbiotic relationship. Is our reproduction any different...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostface Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Is our reproduction any different...? dude, not sure what happens in hamiltron after dark, but mine certainly is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Was the BTA in hyposalinity??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossco Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 dude, not sure what happens in hamiltron after dark, but mine certainly is.... I thought it started mechanical then the chemical kicks in...?? Nooooo...didn't hypo the anemone - it stayed in the main tank. It woulda burst its bubble or something worse wouldn't it???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Oh yeah, just wondered, on ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 WASP...you may find this interesting.... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... did=802597 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joze Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 there is always someone looking for a fight and justification for the fight. Good on you wasp, you have found a way to reduce the harvest load on wild anenomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I can definately see why people are concerned about this : an anemone is capable of wondering around to find a suitable spot, can withdraw from conflict and all seem to have thier own "personalities". This looks pretty cruel, and many would veiw it the same way as chopping say a shrimp/fish ect. However the idea of pain is totally subjective. By definition to feel pain you must be able to think. We feel empathy and project what it would be like for us if we were getting chopped up, in this case based on how the anemone appears to show a "personality". If I culture a bunch of nerve cells in a test tube, noone would care at all if I chopped them up. The anemone is exactly the same. The "pain" is sent as electrical impulses - the stronger they are the more the anemone's muscles will move away from them. Thats it, no computation - nothing. This is pretty much how it works, slow impulse - move slowly. Fast impulse - move fast. It doesnt care whats going on, whether it's fast or slow - it just responds. I hate the idea of cruelty, and its good that people worry about things like this - it shows that they do really care about being responsible reef keepers. But I would have no qualms ethicially with horrifically bludgening an anemone to death, other than the same way I wouldnt smash down a tree for no apparant reason. Its a cool topic, we had to learn about bioethics, it gets a lot more complicated after anemones (aka central nervous systems) though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Feelers - I would rather be bludgened to death or choped in half with a knife than spend the rest of my 200+ years locked in a 2 ft long, 1/2 foot wide fish tank. What we do to the animals we keep is very cruel and selfish (no not shellfish). Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostface Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 fair enough pies - give us yer livestock then, ill return it to the wild 4 ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 I agree it's definately selfish, after all they are taken from the wild for our amusement. But personallyI dont think that looking after animals well in a fish tank is cruel. Many people have fish that breed in their systems, and that shows me that the inhabitants must be reasonably happy. The octopus community had a discussion on this, and with the very impressive mental capacity of octopuses(above that of dogs), it's a difficult question to answer. People generally find that thier octopus appear to enjoy themselves in captivity. Afterall, they never has to work for food (they are known for being lazy), and they will never have to worry about being ripped appart by a moray eel. Some are now releasing their octopuses when they begin to show signs of senescence, so the octopus gets a good protective home for most of it's life, but is still able to partake in the wild population. I dont know how much it applies, but there was a study done on domesticated cats, and found that cats were just as happy in inner city apartments as being able to roam free on a farm. Dont ask me how they measured it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 this whole discussion is very interesting and reminds me of the argument about boiling crays alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Tel - Arguement? Boiling crayfish alive is cruel, there is no arguement. Some some freeze them, this is also cruel. Kill it quickly or torture it, the choice is yours. Feelers - "But personallyI dont think that looking after animals well in a fish tank is cruel. Many people have fish that breed in their systems, and that shows me that the inhabitants must be reasonably happy." Reproduction is a survival mechnisim, it has nothing to do with being happy, reasonably or not. Its not like the fish say to themselfs 'hey, this is a nice pad, my life is on track I think i'd like to start a family'. Its not how it works. They must reproduce before they die, or die trying. Being happy has nine tenths to do with nothing. Ghostface - ? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 no...i was referring to the important argument about the way to get the most tender result, and cooking live starting with cold water thru to a slow boil wins hands down everytime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Tel - your a horrid man. I don't eat crayfish so I will take your word for it... Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tel Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 :lol: i must confess my discretionary $ is going on tank items at the moment. i only ever boiled one alive many years ago and they taste the same either way, best to dispatch with a sharp spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 If you look at clowns for example, they will often not spawn untill good food has been fed for a while - a balanced, nutritious and varied diet is needed. The survival part of reproduction I find odd from an evolutionary point of view, but for example clowns wont spawn in a poorly maintained tank. I think the explanation is that survival of the parents is more important than reproduction - as they can lay eggs another day. So in poor conditions looking after number one is actually a better method of looking after number two. The eggs would likely die anyway. Thus when life is good, spawning is on the cards. Just like in humans - in failing marriges sex life is generally on the low down. On the crayfish thing, I still find it surprising that people still boil them . Although it is supposed to be quick. With freezing I dont think it would be painful, (disclaimer - I'm not a crayfish ). Their metabolic processes are determined largly by temperature, and the colder it is the slower they move. So I would imagine that being slowly chilled to death is like being gradually shut down. Just like in people you'd black out, which to me doesnt seem like a bad way to go. (disclaimer: I've never been frozen to death either :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 WASP...you may find this interesting.... http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... did=802597 Thanks Cracker, Wow! I'm famous on Reef Central :lol: :lol: Come on fish_NEMO, Who are you? And I got referred to as a Nazi! :lol: :lol: Interestingly I once read that Adolf Hitler would not eat crayfish because he considered boiling them cruel. Now there's some hipocrisy! Good posts by all the Kiwis on the RC thread, good common sense. And I will say that the reason for my interest in captive propagation is I do not believe in the wholesale destruction of wild ecosystems that is happening in some areas currently. Having said that, I've also got to say that the 2 main Auckland importers are getting their stock mostly from areas that are harvested in a reasonably ethical manner, so no issues there, but none the less I'm a strong supporter of captive propagation of as many species as possible, and thanks Fay for supporting on that issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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