KerryO Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hi, I'm new to this forum, or any forum for that matter. I'm contemplating setting up my first tropical fish aquarium for over 20yrs. I don't mean I've been contemplating the idea for 20yrs, but it was when I was a kid that I last had tropical fish. So I'm a bit rusty and need some advice. I had a good read around here yesterday, and was pretty impressed with the advice offered to people. I figue it's a lot cheaper to do it this way, than to buy all the books and start reading, and probably still get it all wrong anyway. Get it all straight from the horses mouth so to speak. In my minds eye I know what I want to achieve with my tank, it's just getting there I'm not sure about. I want a 900mm wide tank with the angled front corners. I have a corner in my office come workshop, that doesn't get to much light, and with a good strong bench to sit the tank on, and power, and a cupboard underneath to store/hide things in. At this stage I'm not so concerned about what fish will be going in the tank, as setting up and fitting out my tank. I'll probably only have 1 or 2 types of smaller fish in schools. Plus a catfish or two. I was thinking of building a wall of dark schist stone (not sure about the spelling)at the rear of the tank, so that it is dozens of layers on top of each other, sloping back as it climbs towards the top of the tank. Because the tank will be in a corner, the left hand end won't be seen, and on the right hand end I would curve the stone around, so that it looked good when looking through the end of the tank. As the wall slopes back, I could build small pockets for plants and small stones on different levels, and the odd little cave. Perhaps some bubbles coming out at different levels. Am I dreaming or is it possible? What glue do you glue the stone together with? is it just silicon. I could be talking 200-300 pieces. I'd better stop there for now, before this turns into a book. Looking forward to comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Welcome to the board Kerry O. I really like the sound of your tank. I know you will get the help from the board. The biggest help I got was in the beginning and that was to set the tank up. I used an undergravel filter as well as another filter. Gravel, heater and advice on how to start the tank cycle. I let it run for a week and then was advised to add two guppies (sorry guppie lovers - they were cheap and expendable ) Having the two guppies began the nitrate/nitrite cycle and that took another three weeks or so. Then and only then could I safely go out and get the fish I wanted. Test kits are essential for me. PH nitrate nitrite and ammonia ones. I will stop there for now and again say big welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hi Kerry and welcome to the fishroom. Your idea is not impossible, just time consuming Silicone is used to glue rocks together. Make sure you get one for aquariums. Some silicones have mould inhibitors and stuff in them which are toxic to fish. Make sure the room is well ventilated as the fumes can get to you. I am sure the end result will look fantastic! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Howdy KerryO From what I've read silicon is the only thing mentioned for sticking rock formations together. Make sure you get aquarium silicon though. At this stage I'm not so concerned about what fish will be going in the tank, as setting up and fitting out my tank. I'll probably only have 1 or 2 types of smaller fish in schools. Plus a catfish or two. Are you sure? You seem to be going to a lot of trouble just to keep the above mentioned fish, although it will be YOUR tank so of course it should look the way you want. I read somewhere that you should choose what fish you like first and then see what hardware you need, sounds like a good idea. You'll read everywhere people saying get the biggest tank you can afford (usually because larger tanks have more stable water parameters) but seriously consider it as once you've got say a 3' set up you might not be able to get that 4' or 5' setup, that's where I am at Good luck, I hope you enjoy your time here. Kriber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hi there Kerry O, welcome to the forum. As you say, there's a great deal of info on this site. Your tank sounds fantastic, and I always say "Dream it.... Think it... Do it" I'm a bit of dreamer at times (as my sleepless nights prove) but I usually get things pretty much as I thought them out. The Silicone you want is Silaflex RTV Professional by Fosroc. Good luck with your project, and keep us informed. Happy Days, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryO Posted February 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Thankyou for the replies, and encourgement. I'm limited by space to a 3' tank, but I figure thats better than 2' or 2'-6". I'm used to using silicon, as I was a chippie for 25yrs, though I did wonder if hot glue would work as well. I Know way down the line I'll probably get a few other breeds of fish to add, but at the moment there is too much else to think about. I'm not sure when I build my wall, if I should backfill it with gravel, or leave a cavity in behind for the heater and air lines. Will rubbish and muck from the tank get trapped in there? I really would like to make it, so no heater, filter, or air lines are visable. When I get my load of rocks, whether it be schist, slate, or blue stone, how do I clean them? Thanks, Kerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Do you want absolutely NO hardware to be visible in your tank? What type of filtration are you going to run? If you use a canister filter you can get an external thermal heater (ETH) that runs off it, or if your rich a thermofilter. With one of these setups the only artificial things in your tank would be the filter intake tube and the outlet tube (which sits right at the top and is hardly visible). My friend thought I was stupid for forking out for a ETH but I wanted minimal clutter in my tank, so if you want no clutter, go for it - it will look sweet. For cleaning rocks I use a brush and elbow grease then boil them for about 20mins to kill off any unwanted pathogens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryO Posted February 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Thanks Kriber, I definately don't want any hardware showing, as I think this is what ruins a lot of setups that I have seen. I'm not rich either, but I can build anything. My stone wall is going to run to the very top of the tank in order to hide all hardware. I know very little about filters, but I belive it is possibly to build your own filter setup outside the tank, driven by a pump. This could possibly be in my cupboard underneath. Small pumps are not expensive. A friend has a filter for a goldfish pond that he built in a plastic chillybin. If I did something similar, the heater could just go in the chillybin, this would also eliminate the unsightly temperature guage, always stuck smack on the front of the tank, as it could go in the chillybin as well The heater could also be behind the stone wall. Do you need an under gravel filter? Thanks, Kerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Do you need an under gravel filter? There is no easy answer to this, some people will swear by them others will swear at them . I used to have one when I kept fish 10yrs ago (i'm only 22!) but now I don't. Some reckon they interfere with plant roots, try reading around this forum I bet you'll get lots of info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriber Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hmm, I'm an idiot I didn't answer your question, I prob. answered whether their any good or not :oops: Put simply no you don't need one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Hi KerryO Sounds like you need what I've just done. A Wet / Dry Trickle Filter. Under $100 to build and effective. It sits in a sump under the tank and you can put all your equipment in the sump to hide it. Take a look at: http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/grantglazer/Aquarium/tricklefilter.htm and under the Technical section of this forum. The only equipment in the tank is the small overflow box which I've glued plants onto to hide, and the inlet pipe from the pump which is covered by driftwood. In your case you can have it going behind the rock wall with the outlet being a cave. The overflow box could be covered with rock slabs to disguise. Cheers Grant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 In reaction to an earlier stament you made - don't put the thermometer inside the chilly bin or whatever. It must be where you can see it at a glance to check the temp. Dick Smith have great digital ones with only a small probe in the tank, the rest sits on top or beside the tank. The probe is very small and would easily hang behind the rocks out of sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Hi Kerry, You mention "Hot Glue" It has it's uses, but for total submersion I would use the silicone. Another factor you may like to consider is the weight of the rocks you will be putting in the tank. Several posts on several forums have been made with mention to structures falling over and cracking either the base or other glasses. This could be caused by fish undermining the structure, or tremors... although I don't think you will get many in your area, but vibrations from within, or outside the home, can have the same effect if the structure is in any way unsound. A cavity behind the rocks will cause you endless probs in my opinion. The bracing strip on the tank top will make access to the rear almost impossible, and food and dirt will certainly find it's way back there. Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryO Posted February 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Wow! thanks everyone for the replys. Shilo, that's exactly what I'm after, and all the thinking has already been done. I will study it all carefully. Caryl, you are dead right, it could be days before I noticed a failure. I like the digital read-out idea. Pegasus, I hope your'e not lying awake at night thinking about my aquarium, if you are, could you try and come up with some answers please. I was wondering about the weight, on reflection it might be better to come about halfway up the tank with the wall and terraces, backfill that part with small stones, and then have some towers maybe 3 or 4 continuing to the top. I could plant larger plants between the towers into the backfill, and the towers could disguise air lines etc. I'll go with the silicon, nice and easy to use, and will also give a cusion between rocks and glass. This is great having all of you to bounce ideas off, especially when you all seem to be so praticle and understand what I'm talking about. Thanks, Kerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Now I am the least technical person you are ever likely to met. However reading the posts on heaters etc and of how you want no 'clutter' in your tank. Would you be able to put in a heating pad under the tank to heat it and just have a thermostat to moniter the temp??? Wow it would be great to see pics ofyour progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 I should have thought of that myself goldie! We have a home built under tank heat pad and you can buy external thermostats (I think. You used to be able to they were called Slikstats or something). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Caryl's right. You want the thermometer in or on the tank itself. I use the strip type that sticks on the outside of the glass so didn't think of it. But I want an electronic one An idea regarding weight. Why not use the rocks as a mould only and make it from fibreglass? Not as tacky as it sounds (when dry of course) since you can buy large fibreglass rocks that look realistic. You could also use polystrene, colour it then seal with epoxy. A couple of links to give you ideas: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/backing.0.html http://www.thekrib.com/TankHardware/janne.html Cheers Shilo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeves Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 Hey Kerry O thought I might add my five cents for what its worth... Kriber had a good point about choosing the fish you want and then going form there. I would do this first too as you are starting from scratch. You mentioned a few schools of fish possibly (then again maybe not) you are thinking of tetras of some kind? Research the fish you want then plan accordingly. You also mention that you want heaps of rockwork? Generally this is the way people go for African Cichlids as alot of them are vegetarian and-or will uproot everything - Hey even my Angels like to rip and eat the new shoots out of some of my tender plants! Also there is the consideration of hiding all hardware again this comes down to cost and experience. If you have not had a lot of experience I would probably forgo the expensive fancy equipment and start with some thing like 1 submersible heater/thermostat (a decent one) and an external canister filter that will filter the tank x amount of times an hour, plus your lighting, thermometer strip (stick on kind) test kits and what have you. Hey you can get away with a lot with well positioned plants/driftwood and if you are going for tetras these are probably essential to make them feel comfortable, a dark substrate too. I would recommend the X-ray tetra (Ive found them to school well) the Black neon (they quite active) and the silver tip tetra (which seems to tightly school) just dont get them as any thing under 10 - 15 of each. I would resist the temptation of getting neons as I dont think they worth the hassle as Ive found that they have a high death fate and also a lot of genetic mutations I guess the whole exercise comes down to money, time and effort. Where abouts in Auckland are you? good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryO Posted February 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 Thanks everyone for the replys. I have not gone to sleep on this, quite the opposite. My second hand tank seems to have fallen through. After looking through Pegasus web site I was ready to build my own, with an extra thick base to take the weight of all the rocks I am planning. Then shilo got me thinking with the polystyrene and resin, something I had thought about, but dismissed because I thought it would poison the fish, obviously it doesn't. I just rang Hollywood Fishfarm to get a price on a 3' tank. You could have knocked me over with a feather, I don't know why, but I thought they would be about 200-300.00, Only 97.00, why bother building my own, the glass would cost me more. I'm going over there in the weekend with my wife, to check things out and see what fish and plants we like. Some of my ideas might change after that, and hopefully I'll come home with something in the back of the wagon. I'm not in any hurry, just keen to get started, then I'll be unstopable (copyrite Caryl) Thanks Leeves, you probably will be able to knock me over with a feather when I find out how much the fish cost. I bet my wife only likes the dearest ones. Cheers, Kerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 Have you checked tank prices direct from the glazier? I get all my tanks there as they have a lot less mark-up than pet shops. A lot of Americans who keep African set-ups put a layer of polystyrene inside on the bottom of the tank to protect the base from falling rocks. I have never heard of anything toxic leaching from polystyrene. I use it to keep my spawning mops floating in the killie tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryO Posted February 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 I thought of that Caryl, but I don't know who the glazier is up here in Auckland that supplies the pet shops. I can't imagine it would get much less than 97.50, what would you pay from your guy for a 3' tank? I've got a brandnew Jager 100W heater/thermostat in my cupboard, is that big enough for a 3' tank? It says on the packet for 100-150 Ltr. How many litres in a 3' tank? Thanks, Kerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 Kerry - since you're going to Hollywoods, have a nosy at there tall Malawi tank. The rock background in there is sculpted polystyrene, which was then painted with pond paint/sealer. The polystyrene can be easily sculpted with a gas torch (just do it somewhere ventilated). Considerations for when putting in the tank - it needs to fit snugly under the bracing at the top of the tank, you may want to consider siliconing a strip of glass at the foot of the polystyrene (yes the weight of gravel would probably keep it in place - but if you've got fish that shift the gravel around they may remove enough that it rises up). As far as colouring it - I used acrylic paint which wasn't the wisest idea, as when I sounded out the knowledgable guy at the LFS he told me it was toxic to fish. Ended up having to polyurethane over it (since polyurethane is safe and you can get water based stuff that wont dissolve the polystyrene). Only thing is that the polyurethane seems to go a bit cloudy once it's submerged - I'm waiting for a nice layer of algae to disguise that a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqua Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 Only thing is that the polyurethane seems to go a bit cloudy once it's submerged - I'm waiting for a nice layer of algae to disguise that a bit. You mean that it makes the water go cloudy for a little while? Would adequate filtration clear that up??? Just my two cents worth :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajbroome Posted February 13, 2003 Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 KerryO said... > How many litres in a 3' tank? How long is a piece of string? Obviously, the volume of an object depends on all the external dimensions, not just the length. There doesn't seem to be any rule governing the height and width of 3 foot tanks. Often they're 15 inches high and wide or 18 or some other dimension. To calculate the volume of a tank in litres, measure the inside and multiply the length x width x height (in cm) and divide by 1000. A 3ft x 15 x 15 inch tank equates to approx 90 x 37 x 37cm which when divided by 1000 gives you about 120L. You can safely subtract 10 or 15% to allow for gravel and space at the top etc so you'd be looking at about 100L. All calculations above are approximate, of course, and the final volume will depend on the actual dimensions of the tank you're using. Bear in mind that if you use a sump and trickle filter that this will need to be incorporated in the calculation. Personally, I'd try and use two x 100W so neither one is working too hard. Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerryO Posted February 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2003 Thanks Rob, I'll definately be checking that out. Yes acrylic polyurethene will go cloudy in water, especially warm water. It will actually go clear again if you take it out and dry it, but I think it will go cloudy again when submersed. There must be something that will do the job though. Andrew, you make it look easy. At least thats one heater I don't have to buy Do you think I can do the whole setup with a 600.00 budget. Time and effort don't count, I actually enjoy it. Thanks, Kerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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