cracker Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I dont think it matters too much where the spray bar is. Heaps of areas will get missed within the rock wall or Island etc and they need to be storm blown anyway occasionally. A spray bar will just ASSIST WITH 50 OR SO % OF THE CRAP SETTLING. Wasp...I'm not running a full reef remember, so a reactor wont be necessary. I also like to "be behind the wheel" of the tank as you have to monitor weekly without a reactor and this keeps the tank in the right gear. Easy to get lazy and take for granted with a reactor and they cost shitloads!!! Once a week for an hour will be all I need to keep all the parameters perfect. (Manually adding). I'm not going to have much more inhabitants to add, so the chemical bioload requirements will still be the same. I will have to add more, but they will get used much slower as they will be in a huge water column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 If you like to be "behind the wheel" and in control BB is a good option. Plus when done properly you don't need bandaids like phosphate remover, zeolites and macro etc Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Talk to me Layton, What is BB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Talk to me Layton, What is BB? BB refers to Bare Bottom, i.e. no sand. It allows you to be "behind the wheel" since you know exactly the state of your tank, i.e. nutrient buildup, at all times. Simply look and see how much detritus is on the bottom of your tank. If your water flow is set up correctly, it should accumulate in an given area and thus very easy to vacuum out. You decide how clean or dirty you want your tank to be. I have an SPS dominant tank and love bare bottom. Many people here hate BB because they think it is ugly. Personally, I don't notice it at all since I am too busy looking at the sweet corals! This is by no means a statement saying that it can't be done with other methodologies, which is usually the conclusion that "sand bed" people jump to when they see posts of this nature. You just don't have the ticking time bomb that has been well documented with DSB or unmaintained SSB. I really don't want to start a debate about this whole topic again here as it has been done very thoroughly on Reef Central in the threads below. If you do a search for barebottom on RC, over 21 pages of threads will come up for you to check out. Here are a couple of the most popular and most informative: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=650985&goto=newpost http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=644382&highlight=barebottom http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=223301&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 ok....Not for me......What is a lagoon with no sand.....EEwwwwwww!!!! Thanks for the info! Thanks for the interpretation of the Abreviation though.....Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Well put Steve. One observation i've made in my tank over the last few weeks it that flatworms don't like clean rocks. So no problem with flatworms, algae, phosphates... perfect conditions for SPS corals. No need to buy phosphate remover, or bother with poisonous dirt loving macro algae. So it's probably one of the simplest, least expensive ways to run a tank. But, if your looking at a lagoon tank, then it's probably not for you. It's just more expensive to keep SPS in dsb tanks, cause you eventually need the bandaids to stop the bed killing the SPS. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Interesting.....You are probably right in saying that it is perfect for SPS, however I run Zoo's and softies also coz i like 'em!. (Hence the name" The Zoo man"!! I do however assist with this dirt trapping sand issue by stirring up every single grain and throwing it into the current extremely roughly, to extract the crap. This works really well and takes only a few minutes weekly. My SPS look great too, probably because of this method. The only issue here is my poor little sand sifting goby died coz i keep taking out the food! No more gobies this way please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 And.....2 inches is not really a DSB is it? It is just a pretty little beach for the fishies to look at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 BB is by no means the only way to have a beautiful successful tank. There are HEAPS of great SPS tanks out there with sand in them. Just take a look at previous TOTMs on RC!! There is just the worry that the nutrient buildup over time will ruin it all. Who knows when it will happen, possibly 5 or 10 or 15 or ...years depending upon your husbandry, but it will most likely happen. Even worse, it comes with very little to no warning! With more nutrient tolerant corals, it isn't that big of a deal, but I don't want to take the chance with my SPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 That's how I'd be running sand in a tank too (as well as continual replacement). 2 inches can still cause problems if not vacuumed. Just be aware that sps and softies / zoa's (not zoo's ) come from and require different conditions. When ones thriving, the other won't be. You shouldn't be able to grow xenia in a tank optimised for sps health and growth, and vice versa. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 im definatly going back to BB with the new tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Mmmm......Funny you say that Layton.....My Xenia all died last month! "The Zoa Man" However, I am mixing the rest very successfully at this stage. (Fingers crossed). 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Cracker, Brian. If you end up going BB, consider spray painting the underside of the tank a sand colour. Who knows it might at least give it a better appearance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted September 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Bugger that, I like sand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 i thought about making a fake sand bed but cant be bothered making something that looks crappy i highly doubt my creative ability. i dont mind the BB look i prefer it to allthe hidden nasties that i cant see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 No need to cover your bottom with anything (unless you want Starboard for protection) since it gets quickly covered with coralline anyway. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minchton Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I may have created problems for myself but I didnt like the look of "no sand" so when I changed my tank over I did the rock landscaping and then put a one inch layer of sand along the front of the rocks, leaving the rest of the tank bare behind the rocks. In my opinion it gives me the best of both worlds. An atrractive sand front but clear base at the rear of the tank which allows for vacuuming the muck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Pies did you say a while ago you don't do any thing to your sand, just leave be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I think bare bottom sucks big time, dirt under your rocks is not a big deal as it get used by inverts. I have always had about 1inch of substrate and the life in it is amazing with all the worms and pods, Having no nutrients is just as bad as having too much, it is all about balance. Most dirt in the substrate is inert anyway so I doubt a small layer causes any problems. If you keep wrasses, blennies and gobies then substrate is important to keep them in good health. You shouldn't be able to grow xenia in a tank optimised for sps health and growth Not to sure about as my xenia does really well when my nutrients drop. i have seen a few zeo tank that have low , po4 and the xenia is doing much better than tanks with high nutrients so i suspect that most books are incorrect stating that it will do better in a high nutrient tank, Xenia is very toxic and does kill acros if it touches them . ever smelled a dead xenia in a bag, its not pretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 Pies did you say a while ago you don't do any thing to your sand, just leave be? That is correct. I do nothing to mine, it just sits there and looks pretty Now I don't want people getting on my case about 'dirty tanks' 'DSB are evil' 'bomber says you tank is doomed' 'sps don't benifit from DSBs' etc. I'm not saying its how you should do it, i'm just saying it how I do it, and I am happy to do a coral comparison with anyone who disagrees. Reef - Completely agree about the xenia statement. I've seen Xenia on the reefs. Deep, shallow, high and low light. 1 thing for sure, it lives in the same places as all the SPS corals on the reef, so it stands to reason it wants the same conditions. I also agree with the smell of dead xeina, yuk! Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 pies, approx high thick is your sandbed in ya main tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 my xenia waves all over my acros even attached to a monti. damn stuff, must be my dirty tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 your tank stinks steve - must be all that xenia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 I think bare bottom sucks big time, dirt under your rocks is not a big deal as it get used by inverts. Maybe if you didn’t have all that “innocuous†dirt in there, then you wouldn’t have to waste all that good vodka on your tank and throw a party instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcookie Posted September 14, 2005 Report Share Posted September 14, 2005 reef wrote: I think bare bottom sucks big time, dirt under your rocks is not a big deal as it get used by inverts. Hahaha, If your bare bottom sucks, you are doing it wrong! Whoops, can I post that here? Guess I will find out soon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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