Brianemone Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Obviously this is going to have a huge impact, but does it not seem a little stange to anyone else that they want pictures of fish already in NZ and everything else will more than likely be left off the list??? so there is no chance of getting fish that are not here at the moment but you really want but do not pose a risk to the NZ environment?? and what if you do have a fish thats not on the allowed list and you submit a photo?? does that mean they will come to your house with a bottle of bleach and a bio hazard bag?? seems a very strange way of deciding whats allowed in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 years ago with a quarantine mess up MAF was asking LFS in AKL for addresses of customers. they pleaded ignorant in the believe that was planning just that (bleach in your tank) it could have been just paranoia but better safe then sorry. but one could always submit pictures and just give them an email address and not your home one, if all they want is pictures of fish allready in NZ one would assume that this should be satisfactory. maybe?? i will go and some of my old pic's out to be ready to post them. (for MAF people - the pictures are years old and the fish have gone to fish heaven a long time ago) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveA Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Like this one.. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Like this one.. run SteveA run i have just seen a MAF truck with 20 odd heavy armed guys pulling up your driveway and they have a milktruck full of bleach in tow just in case a bottle isn't enough. wonder what fish would eat (fingers?) its most likely only 3-4 cm long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 I'm one of the ones in the NZKA watching out for the killi side of the hobby. I've been informed that the pics have to be no more than ten years old and dated. How the hell you did that in those days without digi cams is beyond me. Maybe out with the ball-point pens. I too suffer from the paranoia of there being an ulterior motive behind the whole thing. Possibly by writing this I'll go further up the ladder. But other surveys requested by them, I refused to give any details. But this time they are using BIG scare tactics. I'd like to see what they are really up to, maybe after this weekend and the committee meeting we will all know a bit more. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 The information is available at: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fish_study/ Although just now there seems to be a problem with the page... So far we haven't listed any marine species but they'll be added shortly. The requirements for photographs are quite strict and must be on the downloadable form (Work, Works, PDF and OpenOffice). The photo must be added to the form and appropriate fields filled in and signed. If the photo is not printed in hi-res colour the e-file is also required on disk (no email please). Digital camera photo's are fine or original photo's glued to the page. You also need to include a reference to a book where you identified the species. Regardless of what you think of the study it must be done. Failure to do it means no species will be allowed into NZ. It's our responsibility to look after our hobby. We hope we get a huge amount of support for this and have photo's come pouring in. To make life a little easier, the web-pages set up for the study list every species we want. If you can supply a photo of a species, let us know so we can mark it as 'Promised' or 'Done'. If you check the website before taking your photo's you'll see if it's already been covered. We don't expect marine keepers to pull their tanks apart. This was something of concern early on. As long as the photo shows mostly one organism it is fine to take photo's of corals or fish in the tank. There is no need for concern about MAF coming to your place to kill your fish. The purpose is only to identify what is here. If you have an illegal fish this is a different story. Anything that is illegal now will remain that way so don’t list it. Any fish that is deemed unsuitable at the conclusion of the study will be removed from the import list. The species will be allowed to remain in New Zealand however. It is expected it will die off over a number of years… Please do all you can to help the hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Warren, do you know how MAF are going to deal with the coral issue? It is virtually impossible to identify most corals down to the species level, by sight. Not even professionals who study corals for a living can positively do this. How do MAF expect us to achieve this? How do MAF propose to check this? Fish of course are no problem. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 It's a good question. Since I know nothing about corals being a freshie I'll feed your concern through to ERMA (who have set the requirements). Will post a response here and update the specific pages and documents as needed when I get a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 so basicly anything thats not on the allowed list is "illegal" so they will never be on the list, and so the list will only get smaller? there are some great fish that aren't on the list that are not available regularly and its not likely that we'll be able to find a pic of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 There is not much on the allowed list which hasn't been in at some point in the last 10 years Brian. Pictures shouldn't be a problem. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 we'll see, as a tentative thing i'll start a thread to list the fish youve got (or can get a picture off.) remember that ther people in this site have a finite amount of fish and there are alott of fish around that we wont be able to get pics of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 so basicly anything thats not on the allowed list is "illegal" so they will never be on the list, and so the list will only get smaller? there are some great fish that aren't on the list that are not available regularly and its not likely that we'll be able to find a pic of them That's not at all what has been said at all: Anything that's not submitted won't be on the importation allowed list so will no longer be allowed into the country. Anything already here is ok unless it's on the current banned list. Very little if anything will be added to the banned list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Have they explained why they are doing this. Or is it just a matter of they are doing it because they can? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 i've seen the allowed list but never seen the banned list, what is the difference between banned and not allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Banned means not allowed to exist in the country. Not allowed means not allowed into the country, - so if its already here it's ok, we're just not allowed any new imports... Basically the allowed list is just for importers. The current review is only for the importation list, not for what we are and aren't allowed to keep in our tanks at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 the list is made up years ago and han't changed much because we are such a small number that nobody really is interrested in increasing the list. reef has tried a few years back don't really with how much success. but it seems the hobby is taking 3 steps forward and at least 2+ back. There is not much on the allowed list which hasn't been in at some point in the last 10 years how do you know that? since then it has improved quite a bit but it still needs to get even better and hopefully not worse. unless somebody tries to import some live rock again, and again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 You should check your facts their Cookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 thats why i think we should list the fish we know for a fact we can get pics of so we can see how many fish there really are compared to the choice we would like to have, i think you will be suprised to see what a small variety is actually been kept at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 In terms of the marine list I have undertaken to work on it. I will be able to get most photos as I have imported most of items and am aware who has the fish/coral I need to be added to the list. Will advise in a few weeks if I need some photos of a certain fish/coral. Big problem is acropora for example. I doubt anyone can identify all the species. And taking photos of the 100 or so acropora species will be imposable. Pointless blaming MAF as it is controlled by ERMA who is following the law and I guess they need to know what is in the country. We get most of the coral anyway as you cant get most of the stuff that are in books as they are not collected or are rare. i've seen the allowed list but never seen the banned list, what is the difference between banned and not allowed? No such thing as a banned list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Ok, the pages set up for the review are online again: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fish_study/ I suggest you download the documentation and read it thoroughly. Use the form supplied. We will be adding the MS Word, Works and OpenOffice versions of the documents shortly. Please make sure all submissions are on the form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaymann Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Have they explained why they are doing this. Or is it just a matter of they are doing it because they can? Layton Maybe they need to justify their wages by making new lists .. and in 5 years they will do it again..and 5 years , and 5 years etc so the odds are with natural attrition , the "allowed" list will shrink again and again and.... :roll: What I can't fathom with their thinking is why not allow most tropical species into the country? .. it's not like they can survive in our natural waters anyway :-? ... unless they know something about global warming we don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Pointless complaining, do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaymann Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 the whole things pointless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 I am curious as to were we stand legally. Can I submit photos to MAF of my Lionfish? Or of my Moray eel? Or will they say 'hey your shouldn't have those!' and fine me or distroy my animals? Will they ever check? Can I submist a photo I took of an animal when diving in Fiji and say its a photo taken in my tank? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Or of my Moray eel? You have a moray? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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