misnoma Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Right.. so I've been reading here and over on reefcentral etc etc... and I'm a bit lost as to what to do... RC as a whole (at least in the noob forum) seems to advocate a DSB setup (4"ish). Here I've seen much debate, and the members tanks that I've seen don't seem to have more than 1" max. I'm going to be running a 370L tank (5' long), with Deltec 600MCE skimmer, and at the moment it looks like about 40kg of rock (hoping to find some live to mix with base rock - seed it etc ). So... hopefully without starting "heated discussion" what shall I do?.. or really.. what are other people in nz doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 My first question would be what type of animals do you want to keep? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Easy to answer. Go bare bottom. Saves having to buy sand. Over time you will learn more, and if you decide that DSB is where its at, then go for it. If you decide BB is the way to go but hate the look, then add a 1cm dusting of sand. I personally use 2x DSBs, but i'm not nessessarly reccomending them. Each to his own. Good luck, good times (and poor times) ahead. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I think pies has given some good advice. Its one of the "hot topics" and you will find all can work BB,Dsb, Etc just comes down to personal preference Just like filtration so many different ideas. Infact your ideas on filtration will have an effect on you sand bed e.g. Zeovit +BB , Berlin+ Live rock. There are some beautiful zeovit systems. One thing I would suggest is look on the net at tanks that have the results you want and base it from there. How many times do we see someone give advice that seems good only to see there tank. Proof is in the pudding!! (I have DSB but find myself getting pulled towards Zeovit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Also keep in mind the hobby is for YOU, not for others. If you think bare bottom tanks look like crap(like I do) go with a thin sand bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 What I would recommend is not blindly copying someone else, like some may suggest. If you use a DSB, you should know what it does. If you use a SSB, you should know what it does. If you go BB, you should know what it does. If in doubt ask, better to know now, than find out a few months down the track. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I hate the bare bottom look. The sand gives a nice contrast to the rocks. Smaller grain size stays cleaner looking but large sizes don't blow around as much. I like a 3-4cm layer. If you want a cheap substrate there is 2mm marble chip 25kg bag $40.00 If you want some live sand bed, I can syphon a chunk of mine in exchange for new sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 hate the bare bottom Looks great in a selling tank or quarantine, but in a show tank BB is not my cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I wasn't a fan of the BB "look" either, but after 9 months of it, it's almost grown on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Me too my tank has clover, xenia & yellow polyps, monti cap growing on the bottom beats the sand look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted September 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 My first question would be what type of animals do you want to keep? Layton Initially, FLOWR, however looking at _very_ light stocking of reef-safe fish only. Idea is when I then get enough $$ to look at real lighting etc I can move to keeping corals of sorts without having to re-look at the fishload etc. My plan (after some reading and before the reading I've done lately) was to go for a light dusting (i.e. 1-2cm on the bottom) purely for looks other than anything else. As others have said if I feel the need for DSB I can then add more... just generally seeing if there was a compelling reason to go for a deep bed to start with. petplanet, cheers for your offer.. will chat more on Sunday anyhows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 A DSB has pros and cons. To work as designed, ie nitrate reduction, it needs to be 4 inches plus. What happens is all the waste from the tank lands on it and goes into it, and is broken down by critters and bacteria. The nitrate cycle is completed, and the waste ends up leaving the tank in the form of nitrogen gas. I've had DSB's over the years and they can work well for a time. BUT - there is one big drawback. Not everything can be broken down by the nitrogen cycle, and this can stay and accumulate in the DSB. This includes heavy metals, and phosphate, both of which will slowly accumulate over time, and eventually a point is reached where, phosphate in particular, will reach levels where it starts causing problems in the tank. Even thorough vacuuming of the DSB will not completely solve this, as the phosphate will bond chemically to the substrate. The other extreme is BB, or a very thin layer of sand. BB is ugly, but at least all waste can be removed, LR and BB can be the basis of a high water quality system. Some people go somewhere in the middle, like say, 2 inches of sand. However, to some degree this can give the worst of both worlds, ie, the sand is deep enough to trap undesireable waste and accumulate it, but not deep enough to provide nitrate reduction in a deep low oxygen zone and complete the nitrate cycle. There are some lovely tanks running everything from DSB to BB, and many permutations somewhere between, but my personal choice is BB, or a thin layer of sand just for decoration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Well put wasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Cheers Dude! You're OK ( Sometimes ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 We're all friends here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 oooohhhh you can just feel the love... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I thought it was a contender for a tui add myself. I even through in the beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I'm personally aiming for just enough in the main tank to keep the bottom covered. Given the currents it does build up deeper in some areas when you have enough for the areas it's being blown out, gives some nice sculpturing to the sand. But, need to transfer some from my sump to the main tank to fill in some holes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holiday Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 You sound like you have a similar set up to the one I am building at the moment, a Aquaone R2 150 5' tank holding approx 370 L. I have read screads of articles on DSB's, plenum sytems and the likes and have been planning my setup for well over a year now. In the end I have decided not to use a DSB in the display tank purley for looks, a thinner sand bed is easier to keep clean and can be replaced with minimal cost. However I have decided to use a DSB in a refugium that will be approx 6-8 inches deep because I believe DSB's (or plenums but I want go there!!) are the best natural means of nitrate reduction. My suggestion is to go with what ever you feel comfortable with, trying either of the suggested sand beds doesn't mean your system will fail, you will here millions of different suggestions and arguments on this topic and it will only confuse you with each different opinion you read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 misnoma before you go any further i strongly reccomend against a dsb in the tank, disturbing a dsb is not a good thing and if its in your display your almost certain to disturb it if you do something in the tank like move rocks around etc. DSB's have their place but imo it is in a refugium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted September 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 wasp: very nicely put - awesome summary of pros/cons etc Doc Holiday: sounds like a very similar system (even an identical talk lol) Since I'm cycling a tank from scratch, and have all the time in the world, I think I'll go for a minimal covering of sand, and then monitor the nitrates very carefully over time once things are cycled etc. I definitely get the feeling it's one of those things where it's easy(ish) to add more sand to create a DSB, but a heap harder to take it away from an established DSB without causing issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Whatever method you go for, I would recommend cooking any live rock you get (Even dry base rock). Here is a link which explains it well: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showt ... genumber=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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