Kermit Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Hi all i'm better known in the marine section of this forum, as many of us "Blocks" in the hobby my wife constantly nags at me over the time i spend on the tank (but the cute little fishies how are they supose to survive without their daddy ) so we went out and set up her own fresh water tank so yippy she's off my back and she even understands my psycotic obsession with the fishies. Her tank is currently 75L and she has 4 FAT little Neon tetras, 9 Stunt defying Tiger Tetras, 1 haggady white saimese fighter, 1 some what sucker type fish, and 2 small Discuses. the story is that i'm upgrading so she's got to upgrade at the same time (you know the usual every dollar i spend she spends twice as much :roll: ) she'd like to upgrade to a 4'L x 2'w x 2'h tank to house the current fish she has and do some aqua scaping with the plants, longs , etc.... i know with the marine hobby light spectrum and intensity is important to growth of plant life no suprise really but cos we never had a fresh water setup before we're just wondering whats the deal on the other side of the fence, so below is some questions we have regarding fresh water so please help as my wife would apretiate your input. q1. Whats the light spectrums used in "K" rating i.e 6500K and do you use more then one type for different efects? q2. What type of lightings used Fluro's, Metal Halides, Sodium Vapour, etc... and what's the advantages q3. Whats the normal filtration used? q4. do sumps have a place in fresh water systems? q5. my wifes discus seem hangry all the time she feeds them twice a day with flake and blood worms and they still seem hungry does she need to feed them more, whats the norm feeding habbits? Rob and Mich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 1. Can't help with ther spectrums but you can use different lights for different effects. Personally I just use daylight or bright white tubes. 2. Tropical tanks usually use flourescents as they are cheapest to run. 3. Lots of different filtration used but for a 4ft tank I would recommend an external canister filter. These filter larger volumes of water without taking up tank space. 4. Sumps are not often used in freshwater tanks but I am thinking of using one for my next tank. 5. Fish lie, this is a well known fact! :lol: It doesn't matter if she just fed them, they will act as though they haven't seen food for a week. Twice a day is plenty, just make sure you do not overfeed and all food is actually eaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Hi folks! Sorry I'm new to this hobbie so not much help...but just wanted to say hi & welcome to your wife on her new hobbie...look forward to getting her input. But one thing I have learned...fish will eat pretty much any time you feed them. I feed my guys twice a day. I've cut down on how much & now I'm going to start the one day of fasting...starting today...(which is still Sunday here). Monday is the day I usually do my water change. I used to do every second week so if for some reason I can't get the weekly done I don't panic. Once a month, I take everything (excluding fish & some water :roll: ) and give tank a really good cleaning. Wise move...get wife addicted too :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 1. For plant growth stay around the 5000 to 6500k mark. I personally like the 6500K since its a whiter light (nothing worst then a yellow tank). As Caryl said you can add additional light if you want a different effect. 2. Mainly Fluro's. Not only are they cheaper but they are cooler and MH's etc are harder to find with the correct K rating. 3. Most people use canisters. A HOB (hang on back) filter is not the best if C02 is planned for the plants since surface distruption will allow it to "escape" Internal filters are too ugly in the tank. Wet / Dry filters are said to have the same effect as a HOB for C02, but I think they are fine (C02 is heavier then air so it redissolves again in a semi-enclosed W/D filter). Underground filters are debatable in a planted tank. Personally I wouldn't use one since it seems unnatural to me having water flowing down past the roots. 4. Sumps are not a must have like marines, but can be handy. I run a W/D filter so a sump is necessary in this case. But its also handy to hide heaters and other equipment, a place to dose ferts or chemicals, and makes water changes easy. It also increases the water volume of your tank making the system more stable. If you get a canister filter then it probably wouldn't be worth it but its still nice to have. 5. Caryl's right - don't trust them! My Banded Kokopu eat one of the larger shrimps in the tank the other day. This shrimp was so large the BK's stomach was stretched to the limit and the feelers were still sticking out of its mouth. Didn't stop him from trying to gutz some worms being fed to the other fish :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 2. Mainly Fluro's. Not only are they cheaper but they are cooler and MH's etc are harder to find with the correct K rating. Huh...Seems most MH bulbs you'd find are around the right kelvin rating and it's not hugely important anyway, it's more down to personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faran Posted July 10, 2005 Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Agreed with everything said before. Here's my version of the answer, though you've heard it all before. 1. 5000K to 6500K for proper light spectrum for plants. I have a 10000K for all my tanks for summertime lighting, the plants seem to do fine with that spectrum as well. 2. As tropical tanks aren't that light-hungry flouros are fine unless you have a deep tank which will require MH or something stronger for proper light penetration. With deep tanks flouros can be perfect if you have fish that prefer low light levels. Flouros are generally much cheaper, so a majority of tropical setups have them and they've proven to be perfectly fine. 3&4. I've seen a sump setup a few times with tropicals and they work perfectly. Not necessary though, as you can have a simple hang-on filter and it works fine. If you have a tank with a sump sitting around unused give it a shot! I have a 3ft tank with an external canister, a 2ft with an internal canister, a 45cm (fry tank) with a simple sponge filter and a 4ft with a filter built into the hood (don't recommend these highly as they're quite loud). 5. Feeding fish twice a day and fasting one day a week will be plenty. Any food left over after a few minutes is overfeeding. Good luck with tropicals, enjoy the discus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted July 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2005 Thanks everyone for your replies, we've decided to go with the sump as we're both familiar with them (As for the Marine setup) and most running gear can be hidden likes the heater, etc... We're going to try a couple of Fluro's for a starter but may go the MH way if the plants don't like it, it amazing how fast the wattage of fluro's can quickly jump up when trying to get a good light level and most times MH work out just as cheap if not cheaper, i'm a sparky by trade so running gear and lamps are Cheeeap especially around the 5000-6500k rating so its going to be a trial thing. As for feeding thanks as we were woundering if she wasn't feeding enough, and was going to feed them more but not anymore. Just another couple of questions, q1a. whats the normal flow rate of water for a Fresh tropical? q2a. Filter media, filter wool, charcoal, anything else we'd like to keep the system as simple as possible and not a fan on chemical dosing except were no other means is possible. thanks again everyone my wife will in touch soon and fill you all in on her progress. Rob & Mich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilo Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 q1a: Between 3 to 6 times the tank volume per hour? I have mine at 4 and it works well. Depends on your fish load. Most plants will handle a bit of current but some prefer "stiller" waters then others. q2a: All depends on what filter system you choose. With a W/D have some sort of prefilter but filter wool is not that good since it clogs easily. Foam or those green kitchen scouring pads work better. You can also have a prefilter inline. My W/D contains ceramic noodles, pumice and cut up straws mixed together. Don't think charcoals necessary unless you want to remove a chemical from the water, in fact it can be detrimental in a planted tank because it removes some minerals and nutrients from any fertz added. Unlike a marine tank, the plants process a lot of what filters are made to remove. Removing unsightly solids and turning ammonia & Nitrites into Nitrates (although the plants remove alot of the ammonia) is the freshwater filters main purpose. The plants will remove the Nitrates so not need for DSB's etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted July 11, 2005 Report Share Posted July 11, 2005 Feeding Discus Tetra Bits is a good option. Made for larger fish and doesn't break down so quickly as they can be slow to start and only twice a day. Try some Blue Rams and some Panda Cory's to help clean the bottom and are great fish as well. Have both of these in my tank with Discus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Well feast your eye's on these babies, my wifes 75l tank at the mo. we didn't realise that you can't use your Hotmail acount as a e-mail add when signing up on this site so we'll have to create one for the wife. oops the blue lights reflected from the marine tank. Rob & Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Discus have very short intestins (sp) so tend to eat smaller amounts but more often. Plus they are messy cause they dont digest the food as well. THis is the reason people often recomend discus only and bare bottom tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 bulb replacement is an important factor as you know, you may find the lower kelvin MH bulbs alot cheaper to replace than a handfull of flouros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 interesting Suphew, thanks for that. yeah the replacement value of a 4' 6500k lamp is $8-10 each for standard fluros, about $12-14 for VHO fluros and the MH i think about $30-35 each so four 4' fluros will equal 144watts for standard or 232watts and about for VHO costing between $32-56 each relacement when you look at two 150watt MH total of 300watts at $60-70 for replaement, then i'd replace the fluros about eery 6-9 months and the MH every 9-12 months so over all not that much difference, i supose in saying that we'd better go the MH way a especially since we have 2 5500k lamps never used sitting here(free with ballasts i've brought in the past). Cheers Bri for clearing it all up Rob & Michelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcookie Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Hi Kermit, I may have misinterpretted your post.....But I have to check. Are you getting 4 foot flouro tubes for $8 to $10 each? I am paying around $40 each, and interested (INTERESTED!!!!) in finding somewhere cheaper. Can you help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Tell your wife...great looking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 hey watch yuor mouth caper oh you meant the fish tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 :lol: :lol: :lol: Well...yah...what else would I be talking about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Thanks Caper she is good looking, and the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstorm Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Hi Kermit, I may have misinterpretted your post.....But I have to check. Are you getting 4 foot flouro tubes for $8 to $10 each? I am paying around $40 each, and interested (INTERESTED!!!!) in finding somewhere cheaper. Can you help? Madcookie, I bought some from bunnings a couple of weeks ago, they have cool white and daylight white, They cost me $7 or $8 each for 5ft ones smaller would be cheaper i guess as i didnt look at the smaller prices, but dont buy starters from there, they wanting $4 each for them Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 There's ussually not much difference in price between sizes some smaller lamps can be more due to supply and demand like a 2' fitting costs almost double of a 4' fitting due to demand. Didn't know bunnings sold fluro's good stuff, what brand are they? I use Osram Biolux 6500k and cheap off shelf item. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstorm Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 hiya kermit Got them from the bunnings in manukau. they are Phillips alto TLD 58W / 865 Daylight white. Thanx Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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