Richard Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 I just noticed that my clown loaches have white spots all over their bodies and tails as well... I am just wondering whether it is an infection of some sort? All my other fishes are fine... the clown loaches are also fine... just saw the spots earlier... The thing is... the clown loaches keep rubbing their bodies against rocks I have in the tank... they turn their bodies sideways and wiggle on the rocks as if to scratch themselves... so I am thinking the white markings on them are from them scratching themselves on the rocks... what do you guys think? should I add salt to the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jinx Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 sounds like itch, looks like small grains of salt over the body, try white spot cure or malachite green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 Try a 25% to 50% water change that should bring them right. Be careful using salt as this will alter your ph and cause more stress make sure you add just the required amount. Check your water parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midas Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 I'd say they defintely have white spot (Ich) Never had to treat clown loaches for white spot but they are known to be very susceptable to it. Clown loaches are also called "white spot magnet". I have had a few cases of white spot in the past with other types of fish however. Normal salt (NaCl) will not alter your pH! and I would be very surprised if doing a water change cured them of it. The Ich parasite is susceptable to salt at concentrations above about 1.5% I think (can't remember excatly), so adding some salt may help. What other fish do you have in the tank? Some do not like this amount of salt in their water. I have sucessfully treated some cichlids for white spot using salt. If you are going to use a white spot cure such as malachite green it may be wise to use less than the recommended dose (say half the recommended dose). This is because Clown loaches are apparently not very tolerant to many medications. Others here may have treated clown loaches with white spot before and may be able to provide some experience in this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 All the fish in my signature are in the same tank... most of them should be ok with the salt... but I dunno bout the snails though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 i'm with ya midas.. salt shouldn't alter the ph..... salt at 0.1% is known to inhibit the survivability of the 'juvenile' stages of the bug....theronts/tomites etc. BUT, from the sound of it, the lesions r pretty widespread, and the fish r itching quite badly???? salt might not b 'strong' enough.... anyway, u should 1) perform a water change--say 40% or so....mainly to correct any predisposing factors....and to dilute the bugs to reduce infection in tankmates. 2) add salt---1-2 tablespoons per 10L of water.. mainly to prevent osmoregulatory failure--this is why most fish die of ich....when the white spots 'burst' n water seeps into body via the skin. salt will counter this. 3) i strongly suggest u use formalin. available at most LFS...avoid anti-ich stuff as some contain MB--methylene blue, which does more harm than good....malachite green is excellent for severe cases, in combination with formalin... follow the dosage instructions with formalin...remember to do your water changes...generally speaking, u have to repeat the treatment every 48hrs for 3 times minimum. this is one of the rare cases where it's recommended that u directly add the medication into the tank...most other diseases involve baths, dips etc....u can't do that for ich. hope u contain this outbreak bro if possible, isolate valuable fish, or remove the loaches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 on second thought, if u want to b precise, the standard dose using 100% formalin( 37-40% formaldehyde) for tx ich = 0.025 ml per L! a very tiny dose. so if u have a bottle of 50% formalin, and a 100L tank, u'll need 0.025ml x 100 = 2.5ml. but since this is only 50%, u'll need twice the vol = 5ml. repeat this every 48 hrs for 3 times.....do a 40% water change BEFORE adding the drug each time......at this dose, it's unlikely for them to have an adverse effect.....but do monitor for signs of gasping, rapid breathing..and excitation. might b wise to increase oxygen levels during the entire tx period. relying on the manufacturers dosage is risky n often inappropriately low or high......stick with the above n u'll b alright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 I agree with Midas & Wayne re the salt. I successfully treated my clown loaches this way the one time they showed some ick. Was cured almost overnight. I learned the hard way not to use chemicals when treating a tank with clown loaches in. They die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 If you are going to use any of the treatments suggested (except salt) don't forget to first remove any carbon you may have in the filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 Thanks everyone, I have added salt to the tank... and will start doing bigger water changes everyday... I will also slowly increase the temperature of the water one degree a day for 3 days... if this still doesn't work then I will have to go with the medicine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 With my tank, I added the salt and then just did a weekly water change. Because I reasoned that the salt needed time to do its work and in leaving the tank alone I did not further add to the stress of the clown loaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 In defence of what i posted earlier, What i meant is that by doing a water change it improves the quality of the water, for why do fish get disease? It generally is because of the conditions we supply them, when these conditions deteriorate the fishes imune system becomes rundown, and are more subsectable to infection. Now on to the salt. yes using salt is good for some illness, as i use it for my oscars. Arowanas on the other hand have very soft gill membranes which can be damaged by incorrect dose of salt, sorry table salts do not alter the ph :oops: I hoped that has cleared up what I meant sorry to cause any disrepute, sorry last comment is that salt is better used as a medicated bath, this way you can up the dosage a bit and target the ill fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted December 1, 2002 Report Share Posted December 1, 2002 no apologises necessary macka! we're all here to learn i had my doubts about salt's ability to change the pH. Even rock salt n solar salt have a bit of other minerals in them,......but apparently, it's not too significant with regards to pH. Arowanas on the other hand have very soft gill membranes which can be damaged by incorrect dose of salt, actually, it's the scaless fish and esp some catfish spp that r sensitive to salt. Lots of arowana owners in Asia rely heavily on salt as the main preventative strategy. they r as tolerant of salt as most other freshwater spp. no evidence yet to suggest that salt contributes to gill curl in arowanas. keep us updated Richard. hope things get better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellz Posted December 2, 2002 Report Share Posted December 2, 2002 be VERY careful treating clowns for anything!. they have no scales and a lot of treatments that are fine for other fish will kill them... salt would prolly be your best option. It has been well documented in the US that clowns are VERY prone to ICK... infact most LFS give ick treatment free with the c loach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted December 2, 2002 Report Share Posted December 2, 2002 salt is fine with clowns, as they live in coastal regions in asia and I have 2 pretty fat fellows in a tank with 1 tsp of salt per 10 litres of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellz Posted December 2, 2002 Report Share Posted December 2, 2002 Thanks Benny I always thought, salt in with CLowns for a long period of time was a no no no... I might start now..... I do with my other fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Be very wary of using formalin on loaches. Since loaches have no scales, just skin, they often absorb the medication you put in the water directly through their skin. Formalin is one of the things that are usually a mojor no-no with loaches as it is directly absorbed. Salt is ok, + raise the temperature 1-2'C. Increase airation to offset the lower oxygen level at a higher temp. Increasing the temp speeds up the ich cycle, causing it to go away faster. Go with the salt... The usual main cause for ich in loaches is a sudden temperature drop. They seem to be one of the few fish who must be treated with care during water changes. I had 15 loaches for about 8 years and only had ich once. Most of the loaches were over 150mm long, with the largest 250mm. It was early on when the ich struck and a water change with cold water caused it. I don't keep them any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 3, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 So does that mean you have to do water changes with warm water???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Bigger fish wouldn't notice much if you used cold water. And less if you only do small water changes. I use warm water even with my bigger fish, but I do 50% changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Hi Richard, Don't forget one of the golden rules----change = stress guess that's what most of us r trying to attain in fishkeeping. any change in any water parameter is a potential stress to the fish. how large n fast the change is dictates the amount of stress etc etc..... so whatever u do, water changes should b done 'gently' if u like....such that changes r minimised. new water added should b at the same temp. as the tank water... Kellz : be VERY careful treating clowns for anything!. Warren: Be very wary of using formalin on loaches what else to say? Never follow the labelled instructions...u'll probably overdose them how're they going by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 4, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Well... I ended up using Spot Away... but only using half of the recommended dosage... the clown loaches were quite heavily infected... so i figured salt might just not do it this time... and this was a cheaper option... today is day 3 of the treatment... I put some in on day 1... and some today which is day 3... also turned up the temperature a bit... hope it will go away the next few days or so... heard that they usually can be cured in 3-5 days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 8, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Noticed that one of my clown loaches has completely cured of ich... it happens to be the biggest one... the smallest one still has some i noticed... I haven't seen the 3rd one...as it is still hiding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Glad to hear they are all on the mend. Nice one Richard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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