Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 please, i need some ideas, i am having trouble with the water in the big tank, my first thought was over stocking, but as was discussed in the chat last night ( thank you bill for your time and patience ) it is within the safe peramaters. the tank has an internal diameter of 1800cm long, 900cm wide, 900cm deep. i have 2 external aqua one canister filters the CF1200 model, they have filter wool and charcoal, noodles and the bio balls in them. one aqua one internal canister 104f is written on the top, it is a larger one and a aqua one powerhead 103, as well as a long bubble bar the outlets of the external filters are at one end of the tank, one at the surface and one at the bottom, about 4 inches aboue the gravel. at the same end of the tank is the power head, about half way down the tank. the inlets of the filters are at the other end of the tank, one about 6 inches from the bottom, and the other about half way down, with the i9nternal canister about 6 inches from the surface, with the outlet pointed to the surface, the water just breaks i have grit in the tank and some shells, but the ph is unstable, the water is chrystal clear in the morning, but by about 9am the floaties are getting to be an eyesaw, the tank looks really disappointing when there is so much crap in the water, please post your suggestions as to how to fix these problems, it is becoming really disheartning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 i have grit in the tank and some shells.. but the ph is unstable Unless you are trying to "raise" the pH, you should avoid using these, as they could break down and cause some cloudiness. The fish you keep are known diggers,, so is this possibly the problem..? What do you "actually" do between the crystal clear time and 9am...? Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 yes trying to raise the ph between chrystal clear and dirty, i dont do anything, the fish wake up i do weekly water changes and vaccume the gravel at that time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Another thing you can do with your tank is to break it down completely. Put it in a moving van and have it delivered to my place :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Wok dear, at the moment dont tempt me, it really has me disheartened. the fish appear to be healthe and happy and very well conditioned(fat) but with the ph unstable and the crap in the water, i hope they can stay that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 what are the floaties??? what kindof substrate?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Add peat, it will stabalise your PH. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 the floaties seen to be poos and other small particules in the water. on the bottom of the tank is river gravel, it was Very well washed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 my 5' tank suffers from that a little bit, I find that the cihlids just love stirring up the gravel and making everything come out of it and float around. Planning to do the hell gravel vac this weekend sometime, and possibly put em on a diet (I may be overfeeding a little, I'm generous hehe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 I had the crap water from hell too in my tank....do you by any chance feed cucumber? I know people have done so here and heartily recommend it, but that was the start of all my troubles and the water quality was disgusting (although PH was consistant at 7.6)...I lost a lot of fish and in the end shifted all fish and plants elsewhere....dismantled the tank....thoroughly cleaned the stones...sent the tank away for some basic repairs while it was empty....and some adjustments to the glass lid....and now have it back all ready to start from scratch.... my daughter is off buying stones tomorrow...I have plants on the way....and shall start the long drawn out cycling process.....the filter has been working in another tank all this time so should have some yummy bacteria building....Anyway...the upshot of it is, I will not be feeding cucmber again. My knee jerk reaction to your post was to wonder if you have been overfeeding...presumably feeding time is between the crystal clear and the murky 9am....they are sleek well conditioned fish....are you feeding live foods or dried foods or a bit of both? The tank can get mucky quick with live or thawed brineshrimp/blood worms etc.... (seems odd that the water settles to crystal clear and then becomes murky afterwards.) What a cracking sized tank!!! How absolutely wonderful! Did anyone see the marine tank on trademe for about $26000? 9 ft long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 the water becomes dirty once the fish are awake and active, i feed a variety or foods, cichlid sticks fresh garden worms frozen blood worms freeze dried tubafix worms praying mantis woodlice spirilina discs goldfish food plant trimmings from the other tank ox heart the staple diet is the cichlid sticks and the live buggs, the water becomes dirty before feeding time at the zoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Do you have any large pieces of driftwod in the tank? You know the stuff that is darker than the ordinary stuff you find on the beach.....I think it must have been treated to get rid of the salt content and maybe weighted (???) to stop it from floating......my mother has just removed a large piece of dritfwood from her discus tank as it made the water very murky....still doesn't account for why your water should be clear initially though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Don't feed praying mantis, they are indangered in NZ now. Second why do you have the outlets of your external and internal filters so low to the gravel? thats going to help stur everything up and not let it settle again. Second have a look at the filter wool, it might already need a clean, third do a really good gravel clean, and fourth hold of the feeding for a few days and see if thats attributing to the problem. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 i have a number of large pieces of wood in the tank it was form the local waterfalls, the colouration of the water is ok though, could it be the wood causing the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Ahh, then most likley the problem is tannins, give it a while and keep the filter wool in your filters clean and eventually it will disappear. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 I think tannins would affect the water all the time. I think I agree with Shae about the filters though, it could be stirring the water up. Although that still doesn't explain why it is clear in the morning does it. :roll: I have the water going out of the tank close to the gravel and the water that is returning to the tank at the top. Cheers Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Ahh, then most likley the problem is tannins, give it a while and keep the filter wool in your filters clean and eventually it will disappear. Shae if theat was the problem shae the water would be discoloured, not full of floaties, although it may be contributing to the unstable ph levels, your first suggestion had a lot of merrit though the reasoning for the water entering at different levels in the tank is to ensure there are no dead spots in the tank and the water is well circulated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Tannins just make the water brownish, doesn't effect the clarity any (looks at his clear as but browny/yellow water hehe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plecs Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 if you are having problems from the tannins there is a really great product called BioChem Zorb, you put it in the filter and it removes the colour staining. works really well in my 4 foot. how long has it been happening? the water being murky i mean? there are a number of products that will help, but not sure whether you want to go the chemical route. and if they are big particles, which is sounds like, then the filters should clear it. so the fish stir the gravel up a lot? assume so as they are cichlids. Go into Animates if you have any problems. Ester there is good on fish. she can tell you about some options. good luck plecs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 ty plecs, yes they are cichlids, a few smaller ones,like the keyholes,geos,texans,cons,the middle group, the jack dempseys,jewels,green severums, and the big boys the oscars, the fire heads, and the plecs and a few throw ins the 2 catfish and the red tailed shark the water isnt cloudy, and it isnt discoloured just a lot of small particules wondering about a better filteration system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 what kind of mechanical filtration is there?? is it just the two cannisters with the foam inserts??? it sounds like the fishies are stirring it all up as its not full of floaties in the morning but it is during the day, ciclids are just messy little kids after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Seems to me that you just don't have enough filtration. You have around 1400 litres of water so a powerhead, cannisters and internal are not near enough. Your powerhead does 1200l/h, internal 2000l/h and cannister 1200l/hx2. Those are the theoretical flow rates when they are clean so most of the time they will be below that. Sounds like you have a lot of fish in there and I bet they are big eaters. I would suggest a BIG airpump and some BIG airstones. This will improve the water turnover and greatly increase the oxygen levels in the water. Run heaps of carbon to remove any discolouration from the water. If that does not work then you probably need another filter. I take it your issue with pH is it dropping all the time. Don't go anywhere near peat. That will just bring it down. Put some grit in a net bag and put it somewhere with high water flow (like in the cannister). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malawi_man Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 what is this stuff about tanins?? one of my tanks has a yellowish tint, what is this biochemzorb stuff?? is it expensive?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis & Vicki Posted May 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 pet planet, i think you are right, im going to have to get another filter, is there a larger one that i can run rather than having 3 plus the internal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted May 27, 2005 Report Share Posted May 27, 2005 Pet Planet is correct about not enough filtration. Big Cichlids are messy fish. They eat a lot and create a lot of waste. From the photo it looks as if you have no undergravel filter. All your filtration comes from canisters as the internal filter will do stuff all unless you clean it every second day. Personally I wouldn't use canister filters on a tank this size. Mine is 2400 x 820 x 660 (1200L) and I use trickle filters. Years ago it was set up as a large cichlid tank and I never had any trouble with dirty water. You need to turn the water over 5+ times an hour through a very good filter. This means a pump with at leat 9000L/hour capacity. Get a trickle filter sump made with lots of media with a high surface area (Siporax, Effisubstat, Biomax etc - no bio balls). Use a thick layer of filter wool at the filter inlet. You could even consider using a spa pool filter cartridge to further clean the particulate matter from the water. This will also extend the life of the filter media considerably. Read these articles: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/technical/filtration/ http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/techni ... tration_2/ http://www.fnzas.org.nz/articles/techni ... tration_3/ Many big tanks in NZ could look a lot better if the filtration was improved. My tank is always crystal clear. When looking through the 2.4m end you can see the lounge wall through it almost as if the tank wasn’t there. That's not bad for 2.4m of water in the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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