Malawi setting up

[rcallander]

Hi guys. Im thinking of setting another tank up & just want to know if limestone rocks will keep the ph @ the right level for malawi cichlids? How/is there a test to do to see if the rocks are safe to use in an aquarium?

Thanks

[smidey]

for malawi species you want your ph to be 7.4 or higher. It is far more important to have stable water conditions than trying to adjust conditions because it is far to easy for it to go wrong and swing and hurt or kill the fish you have. I kept my malawians in around 7.5ph and they did very well and my current tangs are in around 7.3ph because i am on tank water.

If you are on town supply water then the ph is usually high (7.6/7.8) or something like that and suitable for africans, if it is i wouldn't bother purposely trying to raise the ph but if you wanted to have the limestone for your aquascaping then go ahead. They will raise the ph, how much i'm not sure but it won't be detrimental to the fish i don't think.

If you are worried about the not being safe due to contamination of sprays or something i would soak them for a few weeks, some may say boil them or something but i wouldn't bother. I would just scrub them clean, rinse them and put them in but i guess that is my risk. I

[aer0]

The other option im testing out on one of my smaller tanks at the moment is to fill the bio media tray of my canister filter with coral rock rubble, my LFS sells broken up dry coral rock, i bought some, smashed it up more with a hammer, rinsed it with tank water at water change time and filled one of my media trays with it.

I only installed it last night so ill be testing the tanks PH over the next month to watch how it goes with this setup, the coral rock should act as bio media filtration as well as being naturally high in PH

[smidey]

what is the ph from the tap?

[Caryl]

The test to see if rocks were "safe" was in regard to whether they were inert or if they would raise the pH. All you do is pour a little vinegar on the rock. If it fizzed it would likely alter your pH. I used limestone in my Malawi tank and never noticed it raising the pH a major amount, although it did go up a little.

My fish came from an experienced African breeder whose tap water was 7.0 so that is what he kept them in. He said he did not want to muck about with the pH and besides, his fish were captive bred and had no idea what pH they were supposed to be in.

[David R]

I'd be far more concerned with the hardness and TDS of the water than the pH...

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=63463

[rcallander]

Thanks guys

I already have a tank with coral rock in it & the demasoni's are happy breading.

My tap water ph is around 7 & the rock raises it & holds it around 8.

I have steam cleaned some limestone & have it soaking in a bucket so i can test the water after awhile, will def try the vinigar test thanks.

Im just wanting a bigger tank & didnt want to spend huge money on getting more coral rock. I would like to go 1800w x 600h x 600d with a sump 600w x 450h x 550d (funds permiting!) will prob put the coral rock i have in the sump & just use the limestone to aquascape (if it has no contaminates on it). Anyone know of someone who can build tanks like that, or someone selling one?

[bigfishhead]

I have coral sand in my tank and also limestone. It keeps my tank PH around 8 ~ 8.5.

I would suggest to use fine coral sand in malawi tank as fish just loves it and the light reflect effect is really nice too :happy2:

[aer0]

any suggestions on where to get coral sand from that doesnt cost the earth?

[David R]

You don't need coral, coral sand, limestone or aragonite to keep rift lake cichlids. Plain old beach sand in the tank, or crushed shells in the filter will usually provide all the buffering you need.

Still not sure why people are so concerned with pH though. I can get the pH of my rain water up to 8-9 very easily, doesn't make it any more suitable for rift lake cichlids...

*edit* rcallander; as for the vinegar test, if you are looking to use the rocks in a lake malawi aquarium then you should be glad if they fizz with vinegar, the calcium [what you're testing for with the vinegar] will add to the mineral content of your water, which is a good thing for rift lake fish. As for the tank, if you're driving distance to Auckland [you need to add your location to your profile] then contact Greg/Tanks2U, his details can be found here; viewtopic.php?f=24&t=42159

[smidey]

i wouldn't recommend using sand or any similar fine material for africans. they move too much substrate and moving quickly around the tank so will stir it up all the time and if you have good circulation (which you should) then most of it will end up in your filter. I recommend crushed marble or fine gravel, this will still get moved around and stirred up but will drop back to the bottom of your tank faster.

I have crushed marble as a substrate which is white and quite a few shells, most of the africans available are solid colours and generally dark so a light coloured substrate and a back ground no darker than navy blue are best i think for contrasting the fish. there are exceptions to this but generally that will work the best.

[aer0]

any suggestions then on a specific substrate that doesnt cost the earth?

[Godly3vil]

You don't need coral, coral sand, limestone or aragonite to keep rift lake cichlids. Plain old beach sand in the tank, or crushed shells in the filter will usually provide all the buffering you need.

Beach sand as said above looks great dude, usually keeps ph around 7.6 aswell in my experience.

[David R]

i wouldn't recommend using sand or any similar fine material for africans. they move too much substrate and moving quickly around the tank so will stir it up all the time and if you have good circulation (which you should) then most of it will end up in your filter.

I doubt they move it around half as much as my geophagus who spend all day picking up big mouthfuls, swimming up into the mid levels of the tank then slowly spitting it out their gills so it drifts everywhere. Obviously you need to have your filter intakes as high off the bottom as possible, but unless you are using some incredibly strong current (which would seem strange and unnecessary for lake-dwelling fish) and powder-fine sand you shouldn't have a problem with it getting into filters. Worst case scenario you could put a sponge over the intake of the filter to prevent any sand getting sucked in, but really if it is a problem you're probably using too fine a sand.

The good thing with getting sand off the beach is that the wave action tends to sort it out into all sorts of differnt grades, you just need to choose somewhere that has the right sized granules for your needs. Other than beach sand, Bunnings sell bags of "builders sand" for <$10, just don't believe the bag when it says it is washed! It won't buffer your water, but as mentioned earlier crushed shell in the filter will do this cheaply and effectively.

[smidey]

I doubt they move it around half as much as my geophagus who spend all day picking up big mouthfuls, swimming up into the mid levels of the tank then slowly spitting it out their gills so it drifts everywhere. Obviously you need to have your filter intakes as high off the bottom as possible, but unless you are using some incredibly strong current (which would seem strange and unnecessary for lake-dwelling fish) and powder-fine sand you shouldn't have a problem with it getting into filters. Worst case scenario you could put a sponge over the intake of the filter to prevent any sand getting sucked in, but really if it is a problem you're probably using too fine a sand.

i'm not interested nor do i care how much they move compared to your geophagus, it's not a "who's got the best sand spitting fish" competition. the facts are they move it around and spit it every where to clear their territories which means a lot of it gets moved around regularly.

I get a considerable amount of crushed marble in the filters and that is a lot heavier than sand, fortunately it is too large to be sucked up through the filter system to get into the impeller etc so doesn't do any harm which is why i think it's not a good idea to have a sand substrate but if you choose to use it fine, it's your tank.

you don't need incredibly strong current just some flow so the temp is consistent around the tank and if you create enough the waste left over gets removed by the filter and doesn't build up as much in the rock piles etc.

[Hamstar99]

any suggestions then on a specific substrate that doesnt cost the earth?

I use a grey, 3-6 grade pebble and stacks of limestone. Small pebble are easy for them to move around and create there tunnels etc and easy to vacuum. I have some bags available but its not worth shipping them.

[David R]

I get a considerable amount of crushed marble in the filters and that is a lot heavier than sand, fortunately it is too large to be sucked up through the filter system to get into the impeller etc so doesn't do any harm which is why i think it's not a good idea to have a sand substrate but if you choose to use it fine, it's your tank.

Where do you have the intakes for your canisters? I'm not interested in a pissing contest either, I just thought it strange that I don't have a problem with sand getting into my filters despite keeping similarly messy fish.

[smidey]

my intakes are about 50mm above the normal substrate level although they are generally 75 to 100mm above the substrate as that seems to be the area at either end of the tank that the fish move the substrate from. It's too heavy to be stirred up by the frantic pace the fish swim when chasing each other but they take mouths full of substrate and spit it from half way or higher in the tank.

As i said, it doesn't matter if this substrate goes into the canisters, it's too large to get to the top of it.

[bigfishhead]

Where do you have the intakes for your canisters? I'm not interested in a pissing contest either, I just thought it strange that I don't have a problem with sand getting into my filters despite keeping similarly messy fish.

I dont have problem with my fine coral sand either. I dont find much sand in my FX5 in every 6 month cleaning time. My intake is 5cm above sand.

I guess I am just lucky

Cheers

[David R]

I guess you are lucky! I keep my intakes as high as possible, 30cm+ off the substrate to avoid the sand. Luckily the messy fish also seem to keep the crud stirred up so the filters can pick it up!

[smidey]

with having them at that height i never need to gravel vac, the solid waste get removed by the filters.