HummingBird Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Slanderous means "A false and malicious statement or report about someone." It's not slanderous if people are just saying what happened to them. I don't see why we aren't allowed to talk about specific stores. I do however notice that Alan's post talking about what happened to him at Goldfish Pagoda hasn't been removed where as my post talking about what happened to me at Jansens was. Perhaps a bit of bias there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 A very good point..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 PetPlanet. Good luck with the setup and with the business, I hope it does well. I am a consumer, that is I am the kind of person that is likley to shop at your store, I buy stuff and love spending money on my tank. Since I started my marine tank I have spent over $20,000.00, so I am a pretty good customer to many people. Here is a question for you, because you talk about having both eyes open: Why should/would a buy stock from you, that is 100% more expensive than I can buy it directly from the supplier? That is my 'deliema', I like the concept of supporting a local shop, casual purchases are good fun (if not a little dangerous!), but why buy from you when the wholesaler is selling directly and I can purchase for 1/2 the retail price. Now that can be the difference between spending $50 and $100 per item. This is the problem many of us face at the moment. You comments about US prices are also quite true about prices. But you must understand that the $3US heater costs $10 NZ when it gets here. The wholesaler adds 100% (which you say is fair) so it becomes $20.00. You sell it to me (for 100%) and it costs $40. In the business I work in we call it 'clipping the ticket'. That is a sales model the adds no value just cost. Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Humming bird can you PM me about what happend to you at jansens as i will need to talk to the staff about it if it needs discusion Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Slanderous means "A false and malicious statement or report about someone." It's not slanderous if people are just saying what happened to them. I don't see why we aren't allowed to talk about specific stores. I do however notice that Alan's post talking about what happened to him at Goldfish Pagoda hasn't been removed where as my post talking about what happened to me at Jansens was. Perhaps a bit of bias there? Ok, here's how it works: Alan's post was borderline, but if you check the rest of the thread it just carried on ok. It's when one post leads into a whole string of negatives, - that's when there is a problem. Also when it clearly crosses the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Thanks Pies, couple of customers like you and I will be sweet. Whangaparaoa is a wealth area so marinesshould do well. Here is a question for you, because you talk about having both eyes open: Why should/would a buy stock from you, that is 100% more expensive than I can buy it directly from the supplier? Good point, I would buy the cheaper. You comments about US prices are also quite true about prices. But you must understand that the $3US heater costs $10 NZ when it gets here. The wholesaler adds 100% (which you say is fair) so it becomes $20.00. You sell it to me (for 100%) and it costs $40. In the business I work in we call it 'clipping the ticket'. That is a sales model the adds no value just cost. Your price is a little off. The US$3 heater can land in NZ for about NZ$5.50. And if I am the one importing it and retailing it who will the winner be? You and me! All I need is $20,000 for the stock and shipping/clearance/taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 with out shops no one would have fish!!!!!!!! if you don't support the shops then no ones wins , yes we put 100% on fish but we have over heads and losses and also people come in for info and as that is free we have to pay our self so by charging we are making a living not robbing people, you can go to the wholesales but at the end of the day will they teach you what you need to know or will they just take your $$$$$ :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Keep in mind that not everyone has access to wholesale prices. In fact it's only a very small minority of the total number of fishkeepers. The shop normally has a good supply of heaters so when one stops it can be quickly replaced. The cost of handling warranties etc is built in to the price as well. Good luck with the venture in Marines petplanet. Sounds like you've scoped the market and think it's pretty viable. Hopefully the payback period won't be the years you origianlly quoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 so mean people think running a shop is easy well its not!! i would love some of you to walk in a shop keepers day for a week, its not just games you are dealling with people and teaching them about keeping fish!! yes some shops have different ideas but that is life there is more than one way to do things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I agree with you Kim but hey 1/2 price is 1/2 price. Most people buy thier petfood at the supermarket, why? because it is cheaper. Why would you turn down half price fish if you could get them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 :lol: yes and suppermaket food is crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 the thing that pisses me off is that this site isnt ment to run down shops or people! there are wholesales i dont deal with but i dont run them down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Kim - I am not trying to put you down, or local fish stores in general. But let me explain what I am saying. The business model of wholesale->retail is flawed. Now I understand that you and shops like yours have overheads, and I don't think it would be easy, in fact quite the oposite. Put yourself in the consumers shoes (or at least my shoes). To me, on many purchases all thats important is price. I use resources like this website to make my decision 'going to buy 1 can of tetrabits fish food'. Now the issue is that its twice as expensive from you as it is from the wholesaler. Don't be confused many of us can buy directly (and often indirectly) from these wholesalers. The shops are going to have a hard time competing in this. I would encourge the shops to import there own equipmet, insted of buying a heater for $20 from the wholesaler import it yourself for $10, sell it to me for $25, I win you win. However if you think I (and as you have noticed many others) are going to allow you to make doubble the wholesale value in profit each time I buy a can of food or a heater then you are mistaking. I would rather have the money in my pocket than know it went in yours. No easy answer, but while wholesalers are prepared to sell to the retail public you will struggle to win business from people like me. This is my opnion, and its a genralisation but from my perspecticve its true. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Your price is a little off. The US$3 heater can land in NZ for about NZ$5.50. And if I am the one importing it and retailing it who will the winner be? You and me! PetPlanet - Thats exactly my point! I am happy to pay once, but not twice. Thats how I setup my own tank, most of my stock and equipment came from Reef. Retail it would have cost me twice and for very little value. I felt good about my purchases and good as good a deal as could be found. I hope your marine section goes well. I am sure that because you have a real interest in the hobby it will be a success. It is nice to know there will be LFS out there that 'know there stuff'. Good luck Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 so mean people think running a shop is easy well its not!! Kim I understand your point. I feel it is only a minority who believe it and from the post you read you will see that they might have a lack of understanding on how a business operates and may not understand the difference between gross profit and net profit. would encourage the shops to import there own equipment, instead of buying a heater for $20 from the wholesaler import it yourself for $10, sell it to me for $25, I win you win. The business model of wholesale->retail is flawed. In theory this might sound ok, but if it was so simply then why do all the shops not do this then?? The reason it that you need purchase very large volumes to do this and if you did you would use up your working capital. Every business has an operating cycle and a capital investment cycle. The cycles in some businesses are longer than others and some cycles require more cash. WHOLESALERS-wholesalers buy from the manufacturers and sell to the retailers. The operating cycle is the most important cycle in wholesaling companies. Fixed assets are not a major part of the business. RETAILERS- Retailers sell products directly to the customer. The length of the operating cycle ranges from a few days and as long as a year. The length of the operating cycle will also affect profitability. For example A wholesaler may carry several different types or brands , but should be focusing attention on the fastest moving items. good wholsalers will not carry a heavy or broad inventory,,instead they move inventory quickly from the manufactures to the retailer. BY comparison a retail has to take inventory risk. Customers want choices and selection. This means the retailer must carry a relatively broad inventory.In thoery therefore ,the retailer should be compensated with higher profits for taking a higher risk associated with a longer operating cycle. Even the Warehouse(red shed) buys from wholesalers and not direct from the manufactures, No easy answer, but while wholesalers are prepared to sell to the retail public you will struggle to win business from people like me. I am sure after posting this Pies ,all wholesalers will put a stop to this , so i quess it wont be a problem for Retailers and your deliema in the future. I understand that wholesalers are reviewing this anyway as trademe is a classic example of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I wonder how your employer would feel if they knew you spent a good chunk of your productive use on this forum, as a BUSINESS owner( 2 currently) I wouldnt be pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 This is great marketing for Goldfish Pagoda! Going to go out and have a look this Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Reef - Trademe is a really good example. Trademe provides the 'retail' front end for the 'wholesaler'. There are bargins to be had, and it must be hurting the traditional retail segment. Not just with fish keeping industry but in many other types of business. The internet (not just trademe) provides great options for savigns on equipment. We have already seen many people on this forum going to the internet overseas for equipment that can be landed for a significiently cheaper cost than the NZ retail. The IWAKI pumps etc. Goldfish Pagoda I think is on to a good thing. Clip the ticket on the way through, make a small handeling fee, keep their customers happy and be very cost competitive. Thats awesome. It would be cool if the other shops did this, got out a list of stuff thats comming in (they have pre purchased from the wholesaler) and have rules. That is say the stuff arrives at 10am Tuesday, everyone that turns up at this time to collect their goods before they have to add them to their tanks gets say a 40% discount. This would appease the hardcore (myself and others here), the wholesaler only has to deal with the retailer, and the retailer retains and protects is customers. Seems unfair for the store to charge there 100%+ profit for no value. My opnion anyway. What Reef said about working capital etc is all true, but to me the consumer not really something I care about, I care about fair prices and value, and the cheaper it gets the more likley we are to buy it. Piemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Pies, you just are not going to change the world by never ending argument here. If it's all just as easy as you seem to think for shops to cut their prices way down for us, it will happen, but I think normal business models are already applying, nobody is getting filthy rich, and there is competition. We do need shops to make normal margins. My own interest was sparked after seeing a tank in Jansens, and I'm sure that's how others got started. If there really were the obscenely huge profits some are implying, then we'd all be in the business, you and me included. Why did Jansens shut the marine section on the North Shore? Would they have done that if they were making a ton of money? Why have many other shops gone out of marines? Why have many importers gone out of business? The real world shows us what's what, not theoretical arguments on chat sites. In fact, there is nothing I would enjoy more than to be making my living from my hobby, but frankly, I think it is already to tight of a business for me to risk trying. All respect, and thumbs up, to those who have though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Goldfish Pagoda is buying marine stock at probably about the same or a little higher then "other" pet shops in Auckland. Each of the wholesalers has personal choice to supply them or not. Each of us has personal choice to support them or not. If Goldfish Pagoda is making 20-40% for doing nothing... it will catch on, and all those smaller pet shops around town will want a piece of the game..... It looks to me to be a fundamental change. It is certainly sustainable for Goldfish Pagoda, nothing to lose except easy cash. can/will nick/steve be able to maintain their enthusism at these price levels... why not, selling to pagoda just another client to them! If anything the question is, will the bigger stock carrying pet shops try to muslce the wholesaler with exclusive contracts? they have personal choice which wholesalers they deal with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perky Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 i am going to goldfish pagoda this afternoon. i will let you guys know what i feel about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Well I support Gold fish Pagoda, like everybody else my bottom line is self interest and I want the cheapest price! But - There is nothing stopping the other shops doing the same thing. The question is, would we want to see this. Jansens and Hollywood could remove their displays, when you go there, there is nothing to look at or choose from, and if you want something you order it, then you get there on the exact day, and it arrives in a plastic bag. You don't get a choice, you take the specimen that arrives. Is that what we want? Not me, let's be honest! There will be a market for what Gold Fish Pagoda is doing, but most of us would hope the existing model can also survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Heya Wasp, I don't think I am arguing here, just putting foward my opnion and thoughts. I havn't imlied huge profits, just high margins. See above when talking about clipping the ticket. Why did Jansens shut the marine section on the North Shore? Would they have done that if they were making a ton of money? For exactly the same reason they keep the marine section in 3 Kings. Or exactly the same reason Hollywoods opened a store on the north shore. If there is money in it they do it, if there is not they don't. No problem with it, business is business. Does't Rolph Jansen drive a Rolls Royce? I agree though, many of these people are making a living, not a killing. And I want to support them, but to a point that is disadvantages me. Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifty Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 would I buy a coral or a fish without first seeing it in a tank, seeing it eat, how it swims etc, NO. Personally I want to see all of these things before i buy something so I would go to a shop that has display tanks. As far as hard goods are concerned, I dont care where I buy it from so long as the price is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 like everybody else my bottom line is self interest and I want the cheapest price! funny, when you sell things you use Trademe... to get the best price What I find interesting, is that the trademe price for corals is very close to the wholesalers price, and they are normally only frags.... not whole corals. I LOVE trademe model. but have noticed a few things.... Some things (say sunbeds) just sell 2nd hand way below new cost, sellers just HAVE to meet the market.... but as most people on trademe do not have access to wholesale coral prices, coral frags sell for a big chunk of retail And as wasp suggests, still prob don't fully cover all his time/costs etc..... what does this imply to me... There is a huge untapped market on trademe to sell corals/fish. I do not think this would damage the hobby any more then the guys already selling new tanks on trademe limits tanks sales at pet shops. Petplanet - how you feel about the trademe fish tank vendors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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