Pies Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 How can any store compete with a store that has no over heads. IF you compete on price no one wins. Execpt the consumer, who wins, ohh and the business's that survive the 'war'. If what you are saying is true, than companies like Amazon.com would have ment the end of all other bookstores, however there are still stores around, lots of them. People will pay a premium for retail, but these 'virtual' stores and direct sales models (Dell anyone?) are ways of passing savings to the consumer. Good luck to the LFS, they provide a valuable service and I don't see them dissapearing. I mean Brooklands were around before Reef started to import, and that wasn't a problem? Why is whats happening now any different? Its not. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Wasp - ? Wrong thread? Or am I guilty of the same thing? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Eon, who are you? If you "used to sell and make a tidy profit" why are you no longer in the business? I've been selling frags for a while, but even with my very low expense home set up, I've come to realize that making money on marines is a whole lot harder than it at first appears, if you consider ALL the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Yes pies, correct. Noticed you are doing in this thread what you just chastised me for in the other thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Cost-value-price aren't the same thing. Support the shops that support you. Think of it this way, You order your fish in and pre pay for it. Next day you go down to pick it up but because the airpoint is frog in its been off loaded somewhere else and will be truck the rest of the way. Truck got held up in transit so got to store after it had been shut for the day. Parcel left in truck overnigth delivery next day for you to pick up. One cold dead fish, either you take the lose or the shop. Price was cheaper but rick is greater. I'm not saying that this is wrong but the local shop down the road stocking product do preform a service so don't write them of because it cost them to stock product 4 u. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I mean Brooklands were around before Reef started to import, and that wasn't a problem? Why is whats happening now any different? Its not. And that is the point you have not been in the hobby long enough to understand what we have now and what we did have. If you want to go back to the days of taking 12 months to fill and tank and never get any hard coral then go luck. What is happening now is that prices are getting to cheap, as wholesalers have to dump stock, which is not sustainable. I don’t believe any shop is making a tidy profit. If you do the numbers it does not work on current volumes being sold. Any business manager will tell you this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 do preform a service so don't write them of because it cost them to stock product 4 u. Yep BK you are correct. and no one thinks of all those risks involved with life stock. Also you have to build equity so retail stores can invest back into the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Yes pies, correct. Noticed you are doing in this thread what you just chastised me for in the other thread. 1st off wasn't trying to chastise you! I don't see it, all I see is me asking a question, and responding to the comments made. No drama so far? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eon Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Eon, who are you? If you "used to sell and make a tidy profit" why are you no longer in the business? I've been selling frags for a while, but even with my very low expense home set up, I've come to realize that making money on marines is a whole lot harder than it at first appears, if you consider ALL the costs. i was never in buisness i was however in charge of that aspect of somone else's and they closed for totally unrelated issues and let me just clear somthing up for ya, i never made millions for anyone however ll the costs were covered with a very small ammount left to line the owners pockets. Sounds like you have a really awesome setup at your place would love to see it one day (lol if you have not taken offence at anything i have said) but aint your costs a little different from that of a store??...this is assuming that you are breeding/growing yurself....in a store you can get away with almost bare tanks that just hold stock for short periods of time till they are collected...there is not really alot of maintanance or feeding or as much cleaning and a host of other things, but i am not sure how you are doing things but whatever it is you are doing you must be doing well...was just thinking that whle the end result of product is the same the costs involved can be diferent??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Obviously I havn't been keeping marines long enough to remember the bad old days, but since I got invloved in the hobby its gone from good, to great to outstanding. There is more stock around and its cheaper than ever, thus I can afford to and am willing to buy more. So insted of a shop getting $50 profit from one coral, they are getting $25 for 2 corals (not sure if my math is on the money but you get what I am saying?). All I see is a 'hole' in the market identified and being filled. I still don't see a problem. Its all good from where I am sitting. I think the shops are making a TIDY profit. If there was no money in it they wouldn't do it. They would rip out the tanks and replace them with dog biscuts or something. The fact is these are businesses and they are in it for a profit, and business is good. If its not, then let them close shop, they will just create another hole for someone else to fill. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Eon, if you want to come over, give me a call at 479-5446, we'll set it up. My tanks are not exactly awesome though, in fact they are probably some of the most budget tanks out there Got any frags? I'm always on the lookout! No offence taken at anything you said at all, just wondered where you where coming from, because at first glance it seems like the shop buys something for sixty, sell it for one hundred and twenty, they're making a bundle right? Just that after I've found what it really costs me to produce and sell a frag, I've realised as you say it is not a way to become a millionaire lol. The people buying from me think I just stick it all in my pocket I'm making heaps. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perky Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 regarding goldfish pagoda, my grandmother said "if you find somewhere cheaper than the big shops, go for it. If other shops get upset, they should make their prices more realistic" and shes right tho. perky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Lol, our prices are realistic, they have come down hugely over the past 15 months ? maybe G Pagoda's prices are un realistic. Don't get me wrong if i can get something cheaper i will, but i will allways buy from jansens or hollywoods first and i will never support G.Pagoda, Yes i still buy items from hwoods. Some of there stuff if cheaper and other stock of ours is cheaper. But if Jansens and hollywoods stopped selling marines tomorrow and said yeah we can sell you everything you need and order fish in for you, this will not be a good thing for the the hobby. Have you been watching prices for the past 3 years ? do you know what is realistic ? Maybe people are use to the cheaper prices that stock no longer seems cheap and it's easy to be gready and take cheap digs at suppliers and retailers. I use to be able to refer customers to this site but now we are unable to do it. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perky Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I use to be able to refer customers to this site but now we are unable to do it./quote] Why, too scared that they will go to sum1 elses shop, not yours. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I use to be able to refer customers to this site but now we are unable to do it. Are you allowed to refer customers to any of the Auckland clubs? I was having a chat to Calvin about this..... seems a bit like a sailmaker not being allowed to refer a sailer to a yacht club... just in case they find out from other members about another sail maker :roll: Don't get me wrong if i can get something cheaper i will yep seems to be confirmed we all all doing it... seems to be something we can't TALK ABOUT OPENLY THOUGH!' It always seems darkest, just before it turns pitch black. I think we are at a turning point, cannot expect those who have power to easily or comfortably release it. So far myself and Pies predicted competition would lower prices... it has. Layton, and others suggested really low prices would "hurt" the hobby..... and cause shops to stop selling marines.... Lets wait and see huh..... interesting to see how many posts have "disapeared" today..... I expect bannings as a result. That or the posts should logically be returned....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I use to be able to refer customers to this site but now we are unable to do it. Dogmatix - Thats a shame but understandable, to refer them here would not nessessarly be good for business. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Anyone can be referred here. Any slanderous comments made about retailers will be deleted. Notice this thread is already shorter than it used to be? You may make negative comments about any bad experience you've had. You may not say where or imply where however... That also goes for negative comments about other members. Some posts are also deliberately designed to irritate others. These will be deleted and repeat offenders may get banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 You may make negative comments about any bad experience you've had. You may not say where or imply where however... That is wrong and unfair and biast towards commercial interest. Its OK to promote a shop on this web site via advertising. Its OK to say a place is good, but its not OK to say a shop/store/product is bad? So you are saying this site is not an information platform its a sales platfrom. I don't belive that is in the spirit of what the FNZAS is about. I am a paid member of the FNZAS and am offened by this rule. This is supposed to be an organisation about supporting the hobby, not the business's that make money from it. I do not belive that this is in the members of the FNZAS best interest, which is not the same as saying its not in the FNZAS best interest, I guess your advertisers and sponsers will be happy. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perky Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Pies, I agree with you. This should be a place for people to express their feelings about the hobby. Slagging off another member isn't on. but expressing your feelings about a company whether they be good or bad should be allowed. this allows for the company to improve on their image and performance to the public. Perky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 That is wrong and unfair and biast towards commercial interest. Its OK to promote a shop on this web site via advertising. Its OK to say a place is good, but its not OK to say a shop/store/product is bad? So you are saying this site is not an information platform its a sales platfrom. I don't belive that is in the spirit of what the FNZAS is about. I am a paid member of the FNZAS and am offened by this rule. This is supposed to be an organisation about supporting the hobby, not the business's that make money from it. I do not belive that this is in the members of the FNZAS best interest, which is not the same as saying its not in the FNZAS best interest, I guess your advertisers and sponsers will be happy. And promotion by advertising is supported on this site, - in the commercial trade section. Mark No it's not and I don't have to justify it either. It's part of the site rules and anyone who breaks them will have their post removed and recieve a warning. If they persist we may ban them End of story, not open for arguement or discussion. If you are not happy about it then find another forum to go to. I think you'll find very few forums that tolerate the general behaviour of a few people on this site. Well, we've now changed and we won't tolerate it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perky Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 No it's not and I don't have to justify it either. It's part of the site rules and anyone who breaks them will have their post removed and recieve a warning. If they persist we may ban them End of story, not open for arguement or discussion. If you are not happy about it then find another forum to go to. I think you'll find very few forums that tolerate the general behaviour of a few people on this site. Well, we've now changed and we won't tolerate it either. This was a topic that was open to everyone. we only wanted to express our feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Having never recieved a warning I don't think I have anything to fear. I am the member of many different forums, same me without problems. Infact I am the member of many forums with the same members as those on this site and they have no problem. And promotion by advertising is supported on this site, - in the commercial trade section. I have no idea were this came from, I certainly didn't write it and its not in my post. End of story, not open for arguement or discussion. I expect to see this topic discussed at the next FNZAS exec meeting and would appreciate recieving minutes from this meeting. The way that your dealing with this is poor. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Have a good look at the thread. People have been expressing their feelings and in most cases doing fine. Once the specific naming of shops and 'this happened, that happened etc' started, then there was a problem. If you want to discus negative aspects of a specific shop, do it privately, not in this 'Public Domain'. Also, there were personal attacks and they were also removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I have no idea were this came from, I certainly didn't write it and its not in my post. I expect to see this topic discussed at the next FNZAS exec meeting and would appreciate recieving minutes from this meeting. The way that your dealing with this is poor. Mark Oops, misread that part of your post, - sorry. I have no issue with that. We will be discussing it at the next meeting and your club will receive a copy of the minutes. You can read them at the meeting if you wish. I have support for this from the forum moderators and I know the committee will agree. I have a whole pile of printed posts that have been removed. It's not poor. We're sick of the mess a few members make of parts of the site. The only poor handling is not stomping on it much earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Goldfish Pagoda did have marine tanks but took them out because he could not get any stock. Same thing that put me off getting tanks in. I found out about Alois and that changed things for me. All you could get before was the dregs after other stores had taken the bulk and selection. I think you should get a discount if you buy out of the box/bag. I have done this at other shops and not been given a discount. Retailers need to make a good mark up on livestock. 100% mark up is fare. If one dies you have to sell one to cover the cost of the two. Sell a third and you are making some money to cover costs. We are putting marines in our store for two reasons, one I love them, nothing in cold or tropical compare, and 2 point of difference. Jansens and Kings are 10 minutes down the road. Jansens has about 172 tanks (one of my spies counted them). We will do marine, if you can't beat em do something different. Will cost about 6K to set up four sale tanks and one display tank. Thats 12K worth of livestock sales to cover the tank setup. That will take years. So far the display tank is in and yes it is a nemo tank though not a AR380 nemo tank that some retailers have sold, but a 400 litre tank/sump system. I have and intend to tell customers about this site, especially for marines. I would rather they go in with their eyes open. A note on dealing with the "experts": Was at a shop one day when they were putting new fish in the marine tanks. One tank had a nice Picasso Trigger in it. Guy puts a fish in and the Picasso starts chasing. My partner commented to the guy putting the fish in that it was being aggessive and she knows nothing about fish! He looks at tank and goes away. Trigger nails fish and bites it in half. Guy comes back takes out half eaten fish and adds another. Expensive way to feed a Trigger! I would not expect livestock prices to come down more but hardware prices definately will. When a heater costs about US$3 to buy in China there is no reason for it to cost $20-40 here. Or the Queen Protien Skimmer for NZ$90-100 is US$3.15 or about US$6 with a pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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