beachy Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Hey guys im gonna be getting a tank made up next week, its a 5' around 390 ltrs for fresh water fish a b/tiger and lung fish will be the inhabitance, should i bother about getting the tank drilled and using a sump with a trickle filter? or should i just stick with my fluval 404 canister filter what do you guys reackon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 All depends on how bothered you want to be I suppose. A sump wouldn't be bad in any way and couldn't hurt, could only make things more stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 HI beachy, I am asking th same questions!! I think a sump may be the best way to go for me. So far my conclusions are... 1. Tidier: all you heaters & stuff can go into the sump. 2. When set up right, my impression is they are very efficient. 3. When you consider the $$ per litre filtration, they are relativly cheap. 4. You can DIY it ! Ok + or - depending on your DIY ability 5. Realsised the other day that if I did a small DIY sump, and i need more filtration (eg a canister filter) no reason why that cant be added to the sump. 6 Finally, if your not sure... Drill the hole in the side (near the top)and put a bung in it!! I am finding out its a wee bit difficult to drill a tank once its made! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 6 Finally, if your not sure... Drill the hole in the side (near the top)and put a bung in it!! I am finding out its a wee bit difficult to drill a tank once its made! Not particulary good advice. Something you will learn about drilling the tank is the noise. Drilling a hole at the top is not as 'useful' as drilling one lower down. Also you can put a bung in it no matter where it is. For quiet operation check out DURSO STAND PIPES. Everyone I know who uses a DURSO is very happy with it (including myself), everyone i know who didn't impliment such a system wishes they did. Again pictures on my thread if you can be bothered reading it. It is difficult to drill a pre-made tank, but not impossible. Check Chimeras thread in saltwater "sump room" who has just gone through this and had several holes drilled in his tank while is was half full of water and all his livestock. We have also done a hoke for 'suphew' on this site, although the tank was empty was pretty straight foward in the end. There is risk of course. Sumps are great, and we may do one for out new freshwater setup too. But it does require some planing to get it right. Everything diverjohn has said is correct (cept the last thing, see above). Much better value for money, better filteration, less pumps (1 or 2), better bioligical filteration if setup right, easier maintenance if setup right. What you should also consider is the downsides: * A poorly designed system (without stand pipes, oveflows, baffeled sump design) can easily overflow. Floods are comming with sumps, espeically ones not designed well or not well thought out. * Noise. Because its an open system there is a lot of noise, again easy to deal with but be ready for it and think about what your doing first. The noise will drive anyone nuts. * Light/algae. Do your best to keep light away from the sump, if you don't much algae will make it ugly and harder to maintain. * Evaporation. Because its open evaporation may increase. Tight fitting lids for freshwater or an auto-top-off system is a must. * Single point of failure THE PUMP - The pump fails, the tank is no longer heated, filtered or oxygenated etc. Choose a good quality pump, or design a system that uses 2 pumps. * Small fish may get sucked into a sump inlet, make sure you 'combs' for the overflow box are the correct size. Beware! Algae, leafs etc will block these combs and attempt to flood the tank. Phew. Bottom line = Sumps are great, but have problems. You have been warned. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 We are adding a sump as we like the idea of the extra water volume and increased low maintenance filtration. We're working on the problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Hey Pies, thanks very much. I need to go back and have another look at your post, but there is lot of info in there. One of my next questions was going to be "how far down from the top?" Oh well I'm off to read some more... I'm up to page 6 - I think :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Idealy the hole will be through the bottom of the tank. Look on the internet for 'overflow' boxes and durso stand-pipes. If you don't know what they are, don't understand what they do you will run into problems. There is a reason 95% of all sump driven tanks use these systesm (or variants on them). Its really the 'only' way to do it. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 http://www.dursostandpipes.com/ FANTASTIC!!! Sounds great idea. Seriously looking at putting a sump under the living room floor / basement now . 1060 might be on the cards. Cheers Pies (Oh do i get a prize for getting to Pg 22 On dial up!! :lol:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Thanks guys i have decided to go with the sump, so i will check out pies thread on the durso stand, sounds good something i wouldnt have even thought about, maybe a trip to mitre 10 to check out there plumbing supplies could be the go. Thanks once again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Mitre 10/placemakers do not stock the plumbing you need. Bunnings have most of it, can order all of it. I have been using Mico Plumbing & Pipelines. Most of the plumbing you will need will be 20/25/32 pressure piping. Plumbing is its own challenge. My hints, ignore at your own pearl: * Glue NOT push fit * Pressure pipe NOT down pipe * For threaded fittings estimate how much thread tape to use, doubble it, then doubble it again. Thread tape is cheap, leaks are not. * THINK before you cut, measure before you think. Plumbing is VERY expensive, do it once, do it right. * If you have read my thread you will have picked up on 'pipesize'. The bottom line is go bigger, jusr because you pump only has a 15mm outlet doesn't mean you should plumb the lot with 15mm, GO LARAGE! Electricy is expensive, get the most out of it, narrow pipes will slow the pump. * Every join, tap, union, T and elbow restricts water flow (and costs money), design is smartly, bit don't go nuts. Just the bare minimum. * Draw a plan and ask for input, things don't always work the way you think they might. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Thanks pies your help has been muchly appreciated, i checked out your thread last nite, heaps of good info, what a cool setup! i will be doing some research before setting up as there is no hurry, my fish are fine were they are, so i can take my time. Do it once, do it properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Thanks again for your input Pies. Beachy, Franklins in East Tamaki have a good selection of Hansen Fittings and can get in pretty much anything you want. Bunning East Tamaki also have a good selection of Hansen Fittings, But no bulkhead fittings... Good luck, keep us up to date with progess. JOhn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Sumps are definately a good idea with big fish and big tanks. IMO the good points far outweigh the downsides. Just go price up a couple of big canisters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 6, 2005 Report Share Posted March 6, 2005 Sumps are definately a good idea with big fish and big tanks. IMO the good points far outweigh the downsides. Just go price up a couple of big canisters And you'll find the cost is much lower and filtering power of a sump style filter is much higher than any canister. Of course, sumps suit larger tanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted March 7, 2005 Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 Sump it. Heaps more ltr per hour at cheaper rate and I think easyer to clean as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2005 great thanks guys will keep you posted on my progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 next question to all, what kind of filter material to use? Bio balls i take it are the most commonly used, is there any thing else i can use? ceramic noodles are good in my canister but would they work in a trickle? I have seen some flash ceramic noodles at jansens i forget what they were called but they were so expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 got the tank today looks really good, one prob though the space underneath my tank is about 500h but the trickle filter is 460h ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! dilemas. Not to keen to modify the stand again as its just been painted. How thick does the poly have to be on the sump it is 300 x 600 could i have it sitting on the carpet? or is that to dodgy, cause that would give me that little bit more space, secondly how often does the media have to be cleaned the trickle has two compartments one on top for filter wool and the one under for bio balls, i can get to the filter wool compartement but its a bit harder to get to the other. Any ideas? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Should be fine putting the sump on the carpet, I assume your floor is reasonably level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Thanks ira that will give me a little bit more space at least, i suppose cause the sump is only half full it wont matter to much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nilocagain Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 I have heard of using scoria instead of bio's balls or noodles for a large sump filter, Was told the larger wholesalers use it in there multi tank sumps. Don't know if it works that well, but don't see why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Works fine. Just clean it very well first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 hmmm food for thought, i'm off to see if i can get some deals on bio balls today, installed the overflow pipes last night 25mm hope thats enought to handle the flow, il soon find out, not to sure how long to leave the silicone to dry maybe a few days, i just want to make sure it wont leak. I have installed a stand pipe(durso) with the elbows and am thinking about putting a cap on top with a 10mm hole in it would this restrict the water flow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 The Durso Standpipe needs a cap on it, and a hole drilled into it. 10mm is probably too big. I would use a 2-3mm hole, but you won't know whats right until your tanks running. You may have too drill another/bigger hole though. Don't glue the stand-pipe to the bottom, or the cap to the top. also you realise the stand-pipe needs to be larger than the hole? That is if a 20mm hole is used a 25mm or larger standpipe must be used? e.g I have a 40mm hole and use a 50mm stand-pipe. Yes this means you need to buy a converter for the bottom of the standpipe to make it larger. Good luck Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted March 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 few, the hole through the tank fitting is about 20mm and the pipe is 25mm, i will drill the hole through the cap as small as poss, cause i can always make it bigger if i need to, thanks pies will let yas know if it works ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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