blueether Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 After a lovely picnic on the beach at Manu bay on Saturday with the wife, my brother's family and another couple, I took my nephew rockpooling and found a few fish (tripplefin maybe?), shrimp, crabs and some tiny (guessing here) nudibranch. What would I need to set up a rockpool type tank up in a standard 2ft tank, so 50+L? I have a wavemaker or two around - what sort of flow should it have?, on for 6h off for 6h?. Filter - if I upgraded the 400L's filter could I use the cf1200? - maybe slow the flow down? would I need a skimmer? How much lighting would I need - not as much as a tropical marine I guess? Would a 25% w/c every week or two be ok, and top up with RO water from the supermarket? SWMBO wants me to cost it out before I set anything up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Rock pool tanks shouldn't be too hard if you have access to cheap salt water. the fish and invertibrates are generally extremely hardy to water chemistry due to their location (found triplefins in rock pools that were almost pure fresh water after rain, and they were still feeding happily). wouldn't bother too much using a canister system with saltwater (a quick google will find hundreds of people telling you why not), try a sump tank with a deep sand base, easy and cheap if you can source an old tank and a couple of bits of glass. wavemakers are not essential, more for looks. would do 25% weekly and just use regular conditions tap water should be ok with marine salts (just use fresh sea water if you have access), try and set your maintenance schedule so you can measure and record the water changes is the easiest way to work out how much evaporation is going on and then you top it up with fresh water to dilute the salt a bit. to be honest I don't think you will need to worry about chillers either as rock pools tend to heat up considerably during summer. just try and collect your creatures from the higher rock pools as they will tend to be the hardiest. lighting is a matter of preference, try and keep it up for algae growth but not to cause algae problems (get a chiton, they are quite interesting and graze away at algae (but they can scratch acrylic tanks) and there is a lot more than just the common ones from my latest piece of research) anenomes tend to do well just don't try prying them off rocks, and expect them to move their little stinging bums around a fair bit. research what you will find in your area as some fish spend their juvenile stage in rockpools and can get quite large. Triple fins are cool fish but can be aggressive. forget about crabs unless you want just one nasty lil crab running round your tank. careful about touching anything like kina, paua or crays without a collecting permit (if you really want one invest in a chiller and purchase them from the aquaculture people). hrmmm... cant think of anything else.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Pretty much a +1 to what F15hguy said OT: Earlier this year we did a biology experiment, where we observed the patterns of life in rock pools. F15 pretty much confirmed my findings, that in rock pools further from the sea had less life in them due to variation in salinity, temperature ect. And their adaptations which allow them to survive in this environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 to be honest I don't think you will need to worry about chillers either as rock pools tend to heat up considerably during summer. and they get flushed twice a day get a chiller on that size tank or a nice cool spot to place it http://www.reefkeepers.co.nz/forum/foru ... f=10&t=248 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks for that so far. As for cooling I was planning to pump water through a coil heat exchanger in the 400l native that is set between 16 or 17 deg I figured crabs would be at least as destructive in the tank as koura so would be prepared to have none or just the one I have a pair of 60l plastic drums to collect NSW in and the beach isn't too far for a trip once a month or 6 weeks. No skimmer? I don't want an argument in this thread but I cant see why a canister filter set up well couldn't work, hell you could even have a DSB in the bottom, but that is another thread in the tech section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 no reason not to run it, but it won't do any where near as much as in fresh water. a deep sand bed might work in it, but I have a feeling the current flow will be way too strong to keep it anaerobic which is the main aim. If you have access to a cooler go for it, every lil bit helps. but im pretty sure a tank in an insulated home will never reach the temps found in summer in those rockpools (we measured one on leasure island at 35 degrees and it still had lifer) but then you would run into problems with dissolved oxygen. its all about learning as you go, cant wait to see the final result Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Just realise that although a small number of creatures can SURVIVE at these extremes, they only survive these small periods of high heat/low salinity. They dont spend all there time in this, nor do they thrive. Just like all other fish, they require good water, lots and lots of flow (why you have been told that wavemakers are not needed is a mystery). All creatures that live in the wave zone require lots of movement, think of what happens in this area, 90% of the time in nature, surging waves, currents, tides etc. You will need lots of flow, plenty of stream type pumps etc. Frankly, i dont think you can over do this. Also these type of tank inhabitants, unlike tropical marine, do not photosynthesis, and require alot of food in comparison - so you will need a skimmer, and a good one for your size tank, luckily there are a good number of quality skimmers at very reasonable prices about. Same old story, just because something can survive in certain conditions, doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination, that it will thrive. Oh, and forget crabs, even 1, you'll regret it, best to add a couple of hermits, small ones as they too can be a pita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 I had a rock pool marine set up for a couple of years and it was a great little tank. It had a HOB filter but no skimmer or anything else. I had a problem with heat though as it got too hot over summer months so I definitely recommend a chiller. Wouldn't go smaller than the 3ft either I don't think. I had anemones, chitons, rockfish, triplefins, hermit crab, sea cucumber, shrimps and, for a while, a baby octopus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thank guys I just picked up a free 700*600*400 tank so that is already 3 times the water volume that I was thinking of and should give real scene of depth to the look, even if it is an odd size. This size of tank will give a lot more room for wavemakers as well. I was thinking of maybe using the 2ft that I was thinking of doing this in as a sump of using one or cube bins as the sump, thoughts? Polystyrene background? or will the salt affect it? Pumice for live rocks or will I need some coral? Now to start saving for a sump, skimmer and lights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Thank guys I just picked up a free 700*600*400 tank so that is already 3 times the water volume that I was thinking of and should give real scene of depth to the look, even if it is an odd size. This size of tank will give a lot more room for wavemakers as well. I was thinking of maybe using the 2ft that I was thinking of doing this in as a sump of using one or cube bins as the sump, thoughts? Polystyrene background? or will the salt affect it? Pumice for live rocks or will I need some coral? Now to start saving for a sump, skimmer and lights... :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Polystyrene background? or will the salt affect it? Pumice for live rocks or will I need some coral? coral rock is best and your filter too poly takes up liverock room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 scoria is a good option too if you can get larger peices, has very good surface area for colonisation and is more natural looking for a NZ tank than coral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Scoria's compostion varies greatly, it may or may not contain heavy metals and Iron, which may or may not leach into saltwater. Why risk it??, use coral rock, not coral, it can look very natural, and is the correct and proven rock to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 good point and stunning tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 whats the blueish coloured fish bottom left , last pic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 New Zealand Black Angel - caught 4 fry in a rockpool, about 8mm long, all survived, gave 3 away, and keep one. Here's the growth progression... Last two taken a few months ago, slowly getting darker and darker and the white ear patch is more apparent esp when he's chasing the other fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Very nice tank puttputt. Will look out for coral rock then. I see you (and many saltwater tanks) have no substrate in the tank, is this advisable? I ask because the tank I have go has two ugly patches on the bottom over some drilled holes, holes are about 40mm and the two patches cover about 1/4 of the bottom each. Just scrubbed the new tank down and are doing a leak test and it looks like it has been used as a sump at some point in its life with two sections and a over/under/over thingie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I think you should come up and check out the rockpools at Kelly Tarltons. They are fake, but they're great :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 with salt water you can either go no sand / very low amount of sand or deep sand bed. its more about aesthetics with the no sand option and it assumes you have a deacent way of removing nitrates. The deep sand bed is my choice if you want a lower cost setup as it provides a good anaerobic area for de nitrifying. but if you have the option of a good trickle filter system then it would be an aesthetic thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 no sand takes awhile to get the benefit of DSB if your going to do one do it in your sump or as a side system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Leak test looks good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puttputt Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 thats how i run it LA, bb and remore sand bed. Fake is fine sophia, if you have a endless supply of filtered fresh seawater like KT. Otherwise live rock is an essential part of a closed system like our tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted August 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 I think I'll need at least some substrate in tank to cover the ugly... What sort of skimmer should I get for the system (looking like about 200L or there about) , or should I wait untill I have some idea of the sump system I'll use. Would westcoast iron sand be too fine for for a DSB or should I use more normal sized sand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 HOB or in sump skimmer? iron sand, saltwater about 10 to 15mm of beach sand, coral sand or aragonite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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