Wanting to breed Cichlids.

[dino]

A beginner here, so would like together with my son to start breeding some Cichlids.

I do have holding tanks etc. My main tank is an AR620.

Not looking to sell or make any business out of it, just a nice project, father son thing.

If someone could advise me on the best cichlids to start with, maybe ones that are good parents (colours would be nice, not afraid of a challenge either).

Thanks in advance.

Dino.

[Ira]

You must be wanting african cichlids or dwarf cichlids guessing from the tiny tank you have? Kribensis would probably be a good bet.

[mickey_1975]

Hi there, I have a tank of demasonis and electric yellows. These fish are great to breed with as they hold the young in their mouth for 3 weeks. You can either manually release the babies into a grow out tank or just let them release on their own.

I am moving to Auckland so if you want the colony to start breeding with Let me know as I could sell them to you.

Malcolm.

[Cricketman]

yea dwarfs are sweet little fish that should breed fairly easily. there are many varieties and some apistos and the like are awesome colours...

ie

Fish breeding is always bit hit and miss, much that could potentially go wrong at each stage, but once you get the formula down, you can tackle pretty much anything with adjustments.

Sorry but I just dont think that yellows or any full-size chichlid would do well in a AR620... and breeding tends to result in territorial fish, there simply is not enough territory for even a pair of breeding, full-size, territorial chichlids in there, especially if you are keeping other fish...

Reason being, your pair/s will either:

Never mate in the first place

Eat the young

Spit them early - will be devoured by anything else in the tank

Parents will stress out trying to keep a territory

Other fish will stress out by the parents actions

Stress leads to weak fish and potentially disease.

[dino]

thanks guys I will only use this tank for the breeding pair, no other fish (maybe a pleco) will be in the tank. I will place a strong external filter and have the water moving.

This tank is 95L what size would I need for electric yellows? my son loves the idea of a mouth brooder.

The dwarf option maybe be a good. Any for sale?

Micky cam I pm you to get back a price, I live in Sumner, Christchurch.

Thanks

Dino.

[Cricketman]

For breeding Yellows (by far easiest) , you want 1M/3F, which I think may be pushing the 620 bit far really, even as a sole species tank...

The fish will survive, but you really want them to thrive then I'd say that a 3ft tank would be minimum, but then you'll have space for a couple other species too.

If you want a few bright species, a nice tank that will have the occasional breeding, go the dwarf route, they really are awesome, interactive fish too, which always helps...

Dwarfs, few nice plants (which should grow alright under the AR lights- easy modifications are in the DIY section if you want better/bigger plants), couple bristle nose plecs (which will also breed eventually) and you'll have an awesome tank that ticks all the boxes you are after, and gives bit more...

Which, in all honesty, I think is going to be the best way for you to go...

[ryanjury]

Hi there, I have a tank of demasonis and electric yellows. These fish are great to breed with as they hold the young in their mouth for 3 weeks. You can either manually release the babies into a grow out tank or just let them release on their own.

I am moving to Auckland so if you want the colony to start breeding with Let me know as I could sell them to you.

Malcolm.

Tank is too small for demasoni unfortunately

It would be pushing it for yellows as well, but they may be an option if you were planning on upgrading to a bigger tank in the future.. Other african options which may work in a tank that size are julidochromis or neolamprologus (brichardi/daffidol/leleupi) or even lamprologus ocellatus.

[dino]

great alternative options.

I have shown my son these posts, he feels that it would be nice to keep electrics, but tank is too small.

He loves Kribensis, expecially some of the pictures on the net, their actions of digging nests etc.

when i was younger I used to keep some ramirez dwarf cichlids, they were the highlight of the community tanks, maybe this is a good option it will bring back great memories.

Dwarfs (cricketman) you are right, they are sweet fish and my number 1 option.

brichardi, dafodil, Julies are all great options thanks ryanjury

so this the short list, can I keep two pairs, each different, will they eat the babies etc.

you guys have helped me immensely I will start posting images from start to finish (case study, son will do 9 years), and if allowed use your names. Hopefully finish with little frys eating brine.

Thanks

Dino

[Cricketman]

I'd suggest someone with more hands-on experience and knows more about specifics answer your exact species requirements/tolerances questions

Joe, you out there??

Young fulla loves his dwarfs... :thup:

[Joe]

Laetacara curviceps would be your best bet. They were the first cichlid I bred when I was 10 or 11, and I managed to sell quite a few fish, and I made around $200. There were 100's of fry. I wish that I had had a larger grow out tank.

Apistos are best left for those who have already had experience with breeding Kribs or L. curviceps or something like that, as there aren't many in NZ and they really need to be bred by somebody who has the time, room and knows exactly what they're doing.

[danval]

I can understand your thinking about the Apisto's Joe but I don't think you should discourage someone from attempting to breed Dwarf cichlids...

My first real attempt at breeding was with these fish...

Dino.. Give it a go. Read through previous threads from other members on what worked for them.. I am willing to give advice on what worked for me with previous spawnings... after all, this is what the forum is for....

Good Luck

[dino]

Not only is my son getting excited about this so am I. Thanks danval I will try.

This is a paragraph from the web: http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?id=127

Laetacara curviceps - Dwarf Flag Cichlid

"Some hobbyists prefer to remove the eggs to a separate tank before they hatch. While you may be able to exercise a little more control over the situation this way, you would miss out on some wonderful extended broodcare behaviour. This can continue for several months after the fry become free swimming. It's a joy to watch the adults shepherding their young around the tank, all the while defending them against potential predators."

apparently even when you keep a spawning tank you can keep dither fish like pencils, who will not eat the eggs or fry.

I think I am now homing in on the exact species, thanks joe. Does anyone know where I can buy some, apparently I have to buy them in a group and allow paring to develop, then keep the pair and remove the others.

[Joe]

You could ask John at Organism if he can get some in for you. He has the best customer service and cares for his fish extremely well, and they are all healthy and good quality.

Laetacara curviceps are such a cool wee fish. Mine spawned randomly - I just noticed a whole heap of eggs one day, and left them to it. I didn't have to do a thing. It was just a small 80L community tank which had lush plant growth, dark gravel and I used tap water. It was soo cool watching them herding the fry around. I feed the fry on powdered flake a couple of times a day. Live food would be much better though.

Sadly I no longer have them as I had a columnaris outbreak a few months later and I lost all the fish in that tank.

Currently I have Apistos. IMO trifasciata are the best - they're really small and very colourful and active. If you do decide to try Apistos after you have gotten a bit of experience I highly recommend A. trifasciata.

[dino]

Thanks Joe,OK I AM SOLD how can I get in touch with john at organism? Thanks Dino.

[Joe]

Organism Limited

397 Ilam Rd

Ilam

Christchurch 8053

03-351 3001

[henward]

if you have some holding tanks, and multiple tank set up.

i reckon you should breed a good strain of flowerhorns.

flowerhorns will cross with texas, salvini, festae, fire mouth and even jags and dovii (according to articles overseas)

basically many cichlides. even fertile female parrot cichlids.

line breeding them would be awesome, this is a project i have always wanted to work on but no room and no tanks!

[Guest]

I would say african mbuna cichlids are the easiest to breed under your situation.

Yellows and demasoni are good combination. Also different zebras can also add colors to your tank.

Considering your tank size you may just pick one specie and have a good number of them to get them breed.

[dino]

Organism has quoted $22.95 each for Laetacara curviceps, don't want to be a skinflint :oops: but that is a bit heavy for me. I know I will get great fish and good parental stock.

Has anyone else got any fish for sale. Species discussed in this thread.

Thanks

Dino.

[jackp]

Keep an eye out on trademe as well. Would stick with dwarf cichlids if I were you. Demasonis and electric yellows need a bigger tank.

[Ira]

Organism has quoted $22.95 each for Laetacara curviceps, don't want to be a skinflint :oops: but that is a bit heavy for me. I know I will get great fish and good parental stock.

Has anyone else got any fish for sale. Species discussed in this thread.

Thanks

Dino.

That sounds about right. Most cichlids are in the $15-20ish range. That's not particularly expensive really. A small school of tetras can easily be $50-60.

[Joe]

Organism has quoted $22.95 each for Laetacara curviceps, don't want to be a skinflint :oops: but that is a bit heavy for me. I know I will get great fish and good parental stock.

Has anyone else got any fish for sale. Species discussed in this thread.

Thanks

Dino.

Dude that is a really good price! And honestly if you buy from John you won't be dissapointed - his stuff is always healthy and good quality. The L. curviceps are also a lot hardier than Apistos too.

Apistos are what I would call expensive - I bought two pairs of trifasciata last year for $90.00 a pair! Plus I had to pay shipping, and just to top it off they died a couple of months later :facepalm: The ones I have at the moment were bred by Danval and they are offspring from the same import. They are very healthy and are doing well so fingers crossed for some fry

[dino]

Organism has ordered some, I just placed more money in the kitty. These fish will be treated like royalty.

Thanks guys.

[Cricketman]

Good on ya Dino,

I think You're going to thoroughly enjoy your tank with these wee fellas!

Best bit, once you get some fry, you can swap for other dwarfs and roll through the species as you go (please research inter-species tolerances first, though )

Cheers

[dino]

Ok time to get the tank ready.

Can anyone point me to articles I need to read, mainly about the following:

1. substrate and planting for a cichlid tank..

2. water conditioning, water here in Christchurch is great to drink (but its not African lake water)

3. temperatures.

4. aeration, filtration and water movement.

5. dither fish.

Once I have the knowledge, I can put it into practice.

My Son will soon take over this thread, and post images, diary form, from start to finish, Hopefully finishing with images of fry.

Thanks

[Joe]

You can use plain dark fine gravel which you can buy from John at Organism. I used a slightly coarser grade (can't remember where I got it) but John's stuff is nicer. But dark stuff is what you want - the fish show their colours much more nicely.

You want the tank to be densely planted. Things like Limnophila sessiliflora (Ambulia), Vesicularia montagnei (Christmas Moss), Microsorum pteropus (Java fern and varieties), Hygrophila polysperma (Dwarf Green Hygro), Hygrophila difformis (Water Wisteria) and Cryptocorynes are all ideal. Use a wide variety of plants. The ones that do well in your tank will take over. If you want them to do better use JBL Root Balls in the substrate (espescially under root plants like swords and Crypts) and you could also use liquid fertilisers if you want to. Seachem's Flourish line is great.

For the fish to spawn, furnish the tank with some nice pieces of wood (and you can grow Java Fern and Christmas Moss on the wood). Redwood Aquatics (which is across the road from Willowbank) has a great selection of wood. Also you can use pieces of slate. Don't use artificial ornaments - they look grose and tacky.

You don't need aeration. I never aerate my tanks. I only use aeration on my blackworm setup (which I didn't have at the time I bred my Laetacrara curviceps).

You want a wee bit of water movement. Gentle circulation is important so the tank doesn't become stagnant in areas. Use good filtration. Personally I would buy a Fluval 305 or an Eheim Classic 2213 or 2215. Also they come with good filter media. The stock AR620 filtration isn't really going to do anything. I am not really a big fan of built-in filters or internal filters. Canisters are the way to go, espcially for raising cichlids.

Keep the temp around 24-26, with slightly soft to neutral water (pH 6-7).

Don't bother with dither fish. My pair were in a 90x30x30cm tank and just about killed them all! Dither fish aren't necessary for these guys at all, and IMO you would just be spending money unnecessarily.