Caper Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Hi all, Back ground on tank: 29 gallon (can't find measuring tape to give dimensions) Last time it had a fish-before Christmas 2012 (last goldfish). - kept filter going in hopes that water would not become stagnant (not sure when getting fish) - kept filter cartridges (biological) in a tank that had fishies Last Sunday: - gave tank and filter thorough cleaning - at least a 50% water change - put in new heater - added ornaments given as gifts Monday: - noon time put in filters plus one sock with gravel from another tank - after work took water to pet store (yup, finally have one here!) to be tested - 0 ammonia - forget what the pH was...but do remember saying it was always high - bought 4 red wag platties (originally only going to get 2 but these guys are small) - then added one cartridge from another tank (this one has carbon in it) Bought new test kits for ammonia and pH. Every second day I am checking the ammonia-0. The pH test kit registers to 7.6 which in this kit is a dark bluish color. When I test, the water is definitely a blue. As always in the past, I find it difficult to get the exact reading on the pH but alas...it is and always was high. Questions: 1) Because I used cartridges/gravel from tank with fishies, will/should I still see the ammonia rise? 2) How long should I leave the sock that has the gravel from other tank sit in this tank? pH: 3) Long ago had: neon tetras, guppies, mollies, platties, um...don't remember others I tried. Back then I actually went to several places on the net and wrote down and compared pH, temp, etc., for the fish I had. With what I tested in the tank, should have been ok! At the pet store , they did not recommend fish in one location of their store (tetras, barbs, others can't remember) because of the high pH. He pointed out red eye tetras in particular but as I told him that is what I have in my other 29 gallon together with tiger barbs. Now I know that it is not always black and white when it comes to fish! But I wonder if that is why I had so many losses in the past because of the high pH????? Also learned (probably on here) that when I clean the bio filter and add the new one that contains the carbon, that they are rinsed in tank water removed from the tank. Before learning this, I know when I changed the carbon one, only rinsed under tap water then put right in filter (now rinsed under tap then put in bucket of tank water). Could this also contributed to losses??? When putting the filter directly into the filter only rinsed in tap water could I have been killing the good bacteria???? Sorry so long :-? Thanks, Caper :happy2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 31, 2012 Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 If the filter material you took from the other tank was just sitting inside the tank as opposed to having oxygenated water forced through it, then you may have fewer nitrifying microbes than you might expect. But it depends on the bioload whether or not you'll see an ammonia spike. You are going to have to keep testing. A lot of people don't use activated carbon filters because they're only used to remove medicines, and other chemicals as well as dissolved organics. And dissolved organics can be helpful in binding to heavy metals. If you rinse any live filter (including carbon filters that have become biological filters ) in chlorinated water, you will suffer microbial loss. How much depends on how thoroughly you rinse them since the chlorine is put there by municipal water authorities to kill microbes. Keep the gravel in the sock as long as it takes for your filter to cycle. Some of the microbes will seed to various other surfaces in your tank. For most fish we keep, they seem to tolerate a wide range of pH as long as it remains stable. It may not be pH so much as total dissolved solids that is important. PS: I use the term microbes since the evidence is that the bugs that process ammonia etc are not bacteria but archaea in a freshwater tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted March 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2012 Thanks GrahamC Yes, the cartridges were sitting in the tank. I never thought of putting them in the filter on the other 29 g. tank, darn! I know many don't use the carbon. But doesn't it also help to keep the water clear??? When I bought my tanks, there were no lfs here locally. The only place to buy was WalMart. When I bought the cartridges that fit my filters they came with the carbon. I never thought to look for anything else now that we have a lfs! I always rinsed under the tap as I thought anything new to the tank had to be rinsed, rinsed, and rinsed. I never did buy any products to change the pH because I learned here that stable pH is better then changing. But I became nervous of considering some fish since the guy at the lfs recommended not to put some fish in the high pH. What do you mean by "total dissolved solids"???? It has been so long since I bought fish because of the tetras & barbs in one tank...and the last goldie in the other and 4 corys in the 10 gallon. So I need to brush up on everything again including what does "bioload" mean? :oops: Thanks again :bounce: Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 As a 29 gallon, I am assuming the tank is around 3ft? If you have used stuff from a running tank, and only added 4 platies, you may not see a rise in ammonia or nitrites. If the 4 fish survive a month then add another 4. If all right after another month, add another 4 until stocking level is reached. Actually, if some of the filter media is from an established tank, you could probably add 4 more small platy sized fish now. Don't worry about the pH, the fish will be used to local water conditions and, you are right, better to leave it a bit high than try and alter it. 7.6 isn't too terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 1, 2012 Report Share Posted April 1, 2012 Bioload refers to the amount of organic ( living or dead ) material in your tank that is contributing to the amount of ammonia. So, one pond snail constitutes a much smaller bioload than one goldfish. Total dissolved solids refers to the minerals and organic compounds found in the water that produce a certain specific gravity, and pH ( by virtue of the calcium salts ). So, fish that are found in a high pH environment come from "hard" waters full of calcium, and those that come from "soft" waters have low calcium, low pH, and low dissolved solids. Osmotic pressure relates to the amount of total dissolved solids. When people talk of fish undergoing pH shock, in fact it may be osmotic shock ie. having to deal with water of much different osmotic pressure that they are used to. Does carbon keep the water clean? Yes in so much it will clear organic compounds that contribute to that yellowish look of aged water. But these humic substances that give it that colour keep micronutrients in solution for the use by plants, and also bind to toxic heavy metals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Hmmm...I thought I replied to this last night! Maybe I forgot to submit :dunno: Thank you Caryl and GrahamC Still didn't find mearsuring tape Caryl. It's just over a week since the tank was set back up. I'm still testing every second day. Last night the ammonia appeared to have a slight increase not 0 but not .25. So I did a small water change. Tested again today; ammonia seemed to be down closer to the 0. Because it was not up, I didn't do a water change. I will test again tomorrow. Except when you sent me the nitrite kit Caryl, the only test kits I had when I first started was pH, ammonia, and nitrate. So I might go get a nitrate test kit. I must go search on here about water changes during cycling. I don't want to take out too much right?????? GrahamC, I do not have real plants in my tanks. After 7 years of having tanks, I'm still not ready to try real plants. I do like the clear water in my tanks, so I'll have to think about the carbon. When people talk of fish undergoing pH shock, in fact it may be osmotic shock ie. having to deal with water of much different osmotic pressure that they are used to GrahamC, I really get lost in the chemicals and such. Regarding the osmotic pressure, in simpler terms does that mean hard water versus soft water??? Wish I remembered my high school chemistry, oh but too many years ago :roll: Thanks again, Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 4, 2012 Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Don't worry about it Caper. Only do a water change if the ammonia rises more than it has been. You are doing fine so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thank Caryl :thup: It's been so long I tested and so long since I've been on here; I feel like I'm starting all over again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 GrahamC, I really get lost in the chemicals and such. Regarding the osmotic pressure, in simpler terms does that mean hard water versus soft water??? Wish I remembered my high school chemistry, oh but too many years ago :roll: Thanks again, Caper Other things being equal, then hard water will have a higher osmotic pressure than soft water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichthus Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Perhaps along with Caryl, I think it's best to keep it simple. Just keep the tank running for a few more weeks, do the odd water change, and if there's no great spike in ammonia or nitrite then add your next 4 fish. I don't use carbon, that's more about not wanting to buy more every month! If you think it helps your tank look clear, and you don't mind replacing it, then there's no harm keeping it in. Don't over-complicate things. Slow stocking, with hardy fish like platys, and regular water changes should be a successful way to start a nice community tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Also I would remove the ornaments and replace them with real bogwood and grow some Widelov and Java fern over it so it looks more natural :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted April 5, 2012 Report Share Posted April 5, 2012 Note Caper there is nothing wrong with your ornaments, just that many (Joe included) consider them unsuitable for aquariums and prefer a "natural" look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Thanks all ..hehe love these things! ichthus: I'm in no rush. Ammonia was a definite .25 so did a water change today! Will keep an eye on this. I'm guessing the tank is going through maybe a mini cylce even with the added stuff from other tank. So, I will take my time and try to stay away from the lfs joe: The ornaments in this tank were Christmas presents from my son and his girlfriend:) I would kind of, sort of...like to try real plants now that we have pet store that has them. But, unless someone physically comes here and shows me what to do, it probably will not happen. This is an issue I've been debating with myself for 7 years now :nilly: :nilly: Thanks again folks Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Plants often come in small pots. Just chuck them into the water and let them sink. They'll absorb ammonia and ammonium thru their leaves for you. Presumably the LFS will be using the same source water as yourself, but plants that grow in soft water also do well in hard water as you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Thanks GrahamC! But don't the plants have to be removed from the pots and planted in order to survive??? Caper :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 not necessarily, it is just more aesthetically pleasing to some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Thanks livingart! I'm trying to read up on things again even plants...LOLOLOLOL. But with that said, I thought they ALWAYS had to be planted in the tank! Take care, Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 Some plants do better planted, and you can do that without a substrate in your tank. Just get some nylon stocking, put some topsoil in it, stick the plant minus the pot into it, and then tie it around the base so that the dirt doesn't get into your tank. Drop back into tank. Other aquatic plants use their roots only for tethering to rocks, and wood etc like the popular java fern. All their nutrition is absorbed through the leaves. Other plants float on the top such as duckweed. The plants that eventually grow out of the water ( emerse ), or float, are said to have the aerial advantage as they can get their Co2 directly from air and so grow better than those that grow submersed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted April 6, 2012 Report Share Posted April 6, 2012 The best plants to start with would be Indian Fern, Java and Windelov Fern if you ever do decide to get some plants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thanks all! Saturday - ammonia .25 - did water change Sunday - not home Today - ammonia .50 - did water change Checked pet store for nitrite & nitrate kits Saturday, were sold out; they did have pH kits that test higher than mine. cycle = ammonia - nitrites - nitrates I've been reading up on this stuff again :cofn: :-? . I know I'll probably get different opinions but here goes: - at this point would it be a waste for me to get a nitrite kit? - what about nitrate kit? (I'm thinking yes after reading GrahamC's help re: nitrates) - because there pH test kits test higher, would you recommend getting one? Thanks, Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirt Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Nope, you need to get a nitrite and nitrate kit to see if your tank is cycling. Possibly, if the pH is going to the max on your test it may be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thanks Squirt! I will go back to store tomorrow to see if they got any test kits in yet. Take care, Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Hi! Ammonia: Monday - .5 = water change Tuesday - not checked Wednesday (today) - .5 = water change Still just have the 4 platties waiting for the ammonia to go! Checked back at the pet store regarding plants. Other than java fern, they didn't know what the other plants were. They said they used to come in with tags on them but they don't anymore :dunno: I know nothing about plants. Are there different "kinds" of java fern? I will google. But the reason I'm asking is because in different tanks there were some pointed out as java fern and they looked completely different. Thanks, Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 11, 2012 Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Caper, do you have fish in that tank right now? Not only do you have to wait for ammonia to be 0, but also nitrites. Yes, there are different types of java fern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted April 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 Still just have the 4 platties waiting for the ammonia to go! I wouldn't be putting any more fishies till tank cycled. I don't have a nitrite or nitrate kit. When I first started 7 years ago, I couldn't get nitrate kits here so the tanks did cycle without being tested for nitrate! I've gotten many opinions on the nitrate testing and have been told numerous times that as long as I keep up with regular water changes I don't need it :dunno: I will be getting the nitrite kit for sure! Cycle: ammonia - nitrites - nitrate, right? So, I can have 0 reading for ammonia and still have a reading for nitrites until the tank is cycled? Thanks GrahamC Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.