Squidlet Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hey guys Id like to properly plant my 75l tank which has a coarse sand as a substrate. These are the plant species I have been looking at choosing from: Amazon Sword, Dwarf hair grass, Moneywort, Ludwigia perennis, Ludwigia repens, Sagittaria, acorus mini green, microsword lilaeopsis. I asked the seller on trademe if they would grow well in sand, he said they would and require minimum care. Is this actually the case? What experiences have you guys had with these plants? I currently have some java fern and two fluffy type fern that are growing wildly out of control, but I am having issue with a greeny/browny type of algae growing on them. How can I stop this apart from putting in algae eaters? I have read the sticky on growing plants at the start of the plant section and have tried to do research, but am still confused as to how you can prevent the algae. Also I have never put any fertilisers or anything in my tank, my plants grow very big, very quickly on their own. I do have to replace them every couple of months though, which I assume is not good. Id love some advise on how to maintain a planted aquarium properly. Any advice would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Isn't that brown stuff cyanobacteria and not an algae? And why are you replacing the plants frequently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 have a look at the pics in my loach tank link in my signature for some examples - it started as sand, now it's got a layer of gravel then sand over the top as I thought it was more like a riverbed than plain sand. The plants do fine in my opinion, though I haven't tried the species you are looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 That brown stuff is Diatoms. It is almost inevitable in every planted tank to start with. Just give it time and it will disappear on its own. Why are you replacing the plants? What sort of lighting. If there is insufficient light then the plants will become tall and leggy. Sand is one of the best mediums for plants but you have to watch for dead spots. ( Anaerobic decomposition beneath the sand) Do you have any pics of the tank you could post up to give us an idea what you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidlet Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Im replacing them because they become covered in the fuzzy brown/green stuff, and then begin to look manky with what looks like the outer coat stripped off or holes in the leaves even though I have no plant eating fish. They grow amazingly well however. The lighting is 2x 13w T5 bulbs which I normally have on from roughly 8/9 in the morning until 7/8 at night. I couldnt get any pictures up close of the algae(my camera is not too good) but here is my tank that I am wanting to plant properly: Sorry for the poor quality, I don't think you can really even see the algae in this photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Here's something that I discovered serendipitously. I had a 50L black bin from Bunnings ( all of $9) that I threw my tank water into. I also chucked in a few pond snails. When my plants look a little pale from lack of lighting, and covered in diatoms or whatever, I chuck them into this bucket which I leave in the full sun. A week later, all the algae and diatomaceous material has been cleaned off the leaves. There are brown tracks on some of them which I take to be snail excreta. Some leaves get nibbled but not many. I then put the plant back into my goldfish tank, and the goldfish then voraciously clean off the snail excreta, and any clinging pond snails for desert. My plant then looks like a bought one! Methods I read before include removing plants and washing them by hand under a tap leaf by leaf were tedious and did not work for the really stuck down growth, and also lead to leaf damage from my hands. This method is way better as long as you have a goldfish tank to do the secondary cleaning of snails and slime. Snails can carry diseases so I have managed to cultivate these from eggs. Your millimeterage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Ok, that makes it easier to comment. The sand does not look deep enough for the plants to root properley into. What ferts are you using if any? Holes in leaves is a sign of nutrient deficiency. Secondly. Get rid of the Hemigraphis alternata ( Purple waffle) plant. It is not an aquatic plant and will eventually begin to rot and this will be feeding the algae. Also it looks like you have just planted your plants as they come from the shop. Remove the lead weights and separate the stems. Those lead weights crush the stems which also causes part of them to rot. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Here's something that I discovered serendipitously. I had a 50L black bin from Bunnings ( all of $9) that I threw my tank water into. I also chucked in a few pond snails. When my plants look a little pale from lack of lighting, and covered in diatoms or whatever, I chuck them into this bucket which I leave in the full sun. A week later, all the algae and diatomaceous material has been cleaned off the leaves. There are brown tracks on some of them which I take to be snail excreta. Some leaves get nibbled but not many. I then put the plant back into my goldfish tank, and the goldfish then voraciously clean off the snail excreta, and any clinging pond snails for desert. My plant then looks like a bought one! Methods I read before include removing plants and washing them by hand under a tap leaf by leaf were tedious and did not work for the really stuck down growth, and also lead to leaf damage from my hands. This method is way better as long as you have a goldfish tank to do the secondary cleaning of snails and slime. Snails can carry diseases so I have managed to cultivate these from eggs. Your millimeterage may vary. Removing plants constantly will not fix the issue. Everytime you move the plants you disturb their roots. When the plants get put back into the tank they spend most of their time trying to re establish its roots system. This does not give the plants a time to thrive and actually grow. Plants work best with little disturbing of the root system. Your method is only treating the issue as it happens rather than allowing nature to take is course and balance itself and sort itself out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Have to agree with supasi above. Sand is only very fine gravel after all and will not behave any differently to gravel from a chemical point of view. All my planted tanks are greywacke sand and it is not a problem. The plants look new as suggested and the whole system will need time to get established and create a balance. This cannot happen unless you leave them alone and "just look not touch." If you kept digging up your vegetable plants and washing them under the tap, leaving them with snails then goldfish I think the veg department at your supermarket would become your favourite place pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Ok, but the plant I do this to is not rooted but weighted with lead. Stems are not crushed, and I can loosen the weights. Rooted plants don't survive in a gold fish tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Not many plants survive in a goldfish tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I'm thinking of building a tank divider to keep the plants safe ... but so far they're not eating the Xmas moss and other cuttings I got from Sarah, and the flaxes I bought from Animates seem to be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Id like to properly plant my 75l tank which has a coarse sand as a substrate. These are the plant species I have been looking at choosing from: Amazon Sword, Dwarf hair grass, Moneywort, Ludwigia perennis, Ludwigia repens, Sagittaria, acorus mini green, microsword lilaeopsis. The green Acorus doesn't survive for very long submerged. Don't waste your money on it. Also get rid of that silver shark. Your tank is far too small for it. They grow to about 35cm long and need a lot of space. http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.php?id=762 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Frequently the plants the goldfish don't eat will die by themselves because they are not really aquatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidlet Posted January 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Ok, that makes it easier to comment. The sand does not look deep enough for the plants to root properley into. What ferts are you using if any? Holes in leaves is a sign of nutrient deficiency. Secondly. Get rid of the Hemigraphis alternata ( Purple waffle) plant. It is not an aquatic plant and will eventually begin to rot and this will be feeding the algae Im not currently using any ferts, what should I be using? Ive also read something about CO2, how does this play a role? Im afraid I am a complete noob when it comes to plants, but I'm eager to learn all about it. I'll plant the purple one in a pot instead :digH: The green Acorus doesn't survive for very long submerged. Don't waste your money on it. Also get rid of that silver shark. Your tank is far too small for it. They grow to about 35cm long and need a lot of space. Shame, I quite liked that one, but thank you for saving me the money And yup, poor Bruce is 3 years old. I got him with my very first fish tank set-up, my LFS suggested he would go great in a 30l :facepalm: I got the 75l not long after but hes out grown it and I'm currently in the process of re-homing him on trademe &c:ry Thanks for all the advice guys! Its much easier talking to people in NZ, than on the American forums. Often they suggest products we can't get, especially when it comes to plants. Im going up to Taupo in a couple of weeks, so I'll get some more of the sand that is already in my tank from there. Unless anyone knows or has experience with sand from mitre 10 or something? I prefer the coarser sand which is quite hard to find it would seem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Li@m Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 You could use play sand which is quite corse, its available at most hardware stores like bunnings or Mitre 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 At this stage do not even worry about CO2. You need to understand the principles of why and what before you go high tech. Ferts I would suggest would be maybe some Flourish. http://www.hollywoodfishfarm.co.nz/detail/view/seachem-flourish-100ml/m/1007/ Not Excell, just the normal stuff. Once you get that sorted you could then try some excel. It is a liquid carbon additive which does much the same as CO2 without the PH swings etc. You need to add some more sand/gravel for the plants to root into. Maybe you could then consider some plants like Cryptocoryne or some of the smaller Echinodorus species. They are fairly easy to grow and are good indicators of nutrient deficiencies. Are you an FNZAS member? I have just written an article for the Aquarium World Magazine that talks about plants that are sold in LFS that are not really suitable for aquariums. It will eventually appear on the Forums Homepage after publication in the magazine. As Joe pointed out, Acorus rush is not really suited but will survive several months submerged. That purple waffle plant is suited to being planted in damp soil only. It will rot. Generally as a rule if it has red leaves or it looks like a pot plant then it probaly wont be suitable for submersion. There are exceptions to the rules, Ludwigia species and Rotala are red plants that happily live submersed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supasi Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Feel free to message me if you need help. :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squidlet Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Wow thanks for all you advice guys you have all been very helpful! I have asked the owners at the LFS I work at not to order in the red waffle but they say as it is popular they will keep getting it :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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