Perpin Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I am not a fan of brumation but you might like to give it a try. Here are some facts to consider - I have copied some info from some successful breeders in the USA.... Brumation can be very risky as it is common for reptiles to die at this time. I would not recommend brumation to anyone that owns animals for fun and is not looking to breed the geckos, or for those animals that are not completely 100% plump and healthy. I have found that animals that get put into brumation that are not very healthy generally do not live through this testing time and therefore it is not recommended. In nature these ‘weak’ individuals would not make it and the theory of only the strong survive would prevail and possible weaker genetics would be eliminated from the species gene pool. But in captivity we have the opportunity to avoid these harsh realities of nature by accommodating our animals with ideal environments. Much of the risk associated with brumation is due to lack of know-how and the attempt to cool a gecko incorrectly or to cool a gecko that is not in optimal condition. I would never recommend brumating a juvenile gecko or a first season potential breeder as this could be beneficial time that the juvenile could be using to eat, grow, and mature. A problem that can occur in brumation is when the reptile is not cooled at low enough temperatures to stop its metabolism. This results in weight loss and can sometimes be very drastic and happen quickly. There is also no factual info to be found that suggests brumation adds any more life onto your leo... Proper brumation temps would be in the mid 50's... Anything higher will just push them off feed... In order to properly brumate all of their functions must be slowed down... Temps in the 70's will make them stop feeding but their metabolism will burn off much more of their stored nutients at a fast rate... In the mid 50's their metabolic rates show down as well as their heart rates and breathing rates... Also to properly brumate, you need to reduce feeding and turn the temps down gradualy... Feeding should stop completely atleast a week before they are put down for brumation... So converting 50F to celcius works out to 12 degrees. What temps do you keep your leo's at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I brumated 10 last season without a problem. That is other than not very good fertility which I think was caused by not brumating long enough.. They are brumating at the moment and have been for around 6 weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 at the hot point its about 28 to 29 - low point is about 22. of course some parts of the tank may be colder , maybe direct under the eater is slightly warmer but very localised, the temperature spread in the enclosure is broad so can regulate its body temp accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 A small gene pool will probably encourage some new strains to pop up quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 You temps are fine. If you are confident that they are in good health then give brumation a try. It may help trigger egg production. Yours is an extreme case so I agree with Alan, it is worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 A small gene pool will probably encourage some new strains to pop up quicker. That's what I am hoping :sml2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Mine are at 15 degrees C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Somethings definately not right. apparently leos are an absolute doddle to breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Somethings definately not right. apparently leos are an absolute doddle to breed. I have never had an issue at all in all my years of breeding so it doesn't sound good but let's hope that all the tips help solve the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirio Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 hope they breed, i just want a colony of them lol Sure you're not going to feed them to your Aro? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddle69 Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Somethings definately not right. apparently leos are an absolute doddle to breed. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 A small gene pool will probably encourage some new strains to pop up quicker. Do you think we will have trouble with MAF if and when we do produce a new strain? I am asking because people have mentioned that they dont have a full understanding of breeding and genetics. Will they assume that the person has done something illegal or will they understand that they have been breeding certain individuals and heldback offspring that seem to be promising in terms of their colouring? It is something that I have thought of often. It will be exciting if one day an albino pops up. Just wondering if it will be received well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 so long as you have the parents and lineage recorded it will not be a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Awesome. Have been keeping records of my breeding and will continue to do so. Thanks Livingart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted June 25, 2011 Report Share Posted June 25, 2011 Awesome. Have been keeping records and will continue to do so. Thanks Livingart i would have expected no less from you it is when new reps pop up with no history that MAFs alarm bells start ringing :nilly: they love a paper trail :smln: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I dont think you will get a problem with maf with new strains. its like fish, you can selectively breed. currently i have noticed, the current bloodlines here of leopards are the normal colours and ones with larger dots. i havent seen anything more unusual. and not an expert in selectively breeding to get traits etc. but, albinos will be awesome! once there is an albino that pops up, doesnt that mean more can be produced quicker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Rumour has it that there are a few out there with some new characteristics which could end with different strains in a few generations. Haven't heard of albino though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 yeah, im sure that is the case. we shall see i guess:D too bad, there doesnt seem to be any other reptiles that will come out that is deemed legal by maf. i think leopard will be as exotic as we get Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneaky2 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 yeah, im sure that is the case. we shall see i guess:D too bad, there doesnt seem to be any other reptiles that will come out that is deemed legal by maf. i think leopard will be as exotic as we get full grown male waterdragons fairly exotic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonz1833 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 amen for the male water dragon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 why are male water dragons so hard to find? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perpin Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 I dont think you will get a problem with maf with new strains. its like fish, you can selectively breed. currently i have noticed, the current bloodlines here of leopards are the normal colours and ones with larger dots. i havent seen anything more unusual. and not an expert in selectively breeding to get traits etc. but, albinos will be awesome! once there is an albino that pops up, doesnt that mean more can be produced quicker? Gosh I miss my albinos back in SA I am really hoping that albinos pop up at some point. If someone does manage to breed out an albino it will take a further 2 generations to get more, if the breeder understands the genetics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted June 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 i want snakes and massive monitor lizards:D tarantulas, emperor scorpions.... and a fish tank full of high grade arowanas for an affordable price:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason22 Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Well atleast dreams are free lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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