I am looking for a basic sump design i can use for our new 180L tank (paid for but yet to be built)

i cant really see anything i can work from on the internet. maybe someone might have some ideas.

i thought about having a built in sump at the back of the tank so there is no ugly pipes etc

ideas?

heres a good page with heaps of designs it explains what each bit is for too

http://www.melevsreef.com/

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

thanks! but one question i have always asked myself but didnt want to ask others because i thought it was a stupid question is what is the "refugium" and what goes inside it?

its just a section of the sump or even tank that is used to house things , it could be housing macro algae(seaweed) which uses nutrients like nitrate and phosphate as it grows and is harvested periodically to export the nutrients from the tank , this type of set up is normally lighted and on a reverse cycle to that of the main tank. it could also have some pieces of live rock in it to allow pods to grow and multiply safe from predators( some will still make it to the tank) also it could be used to house a DSB (deep sand bed) which is just a thick layer of sand deep enough to support anaerobic bacteria which complete the nitrogen cycle, turning nitrate into nitrogen gas, while also housing many beneficial creatures which turn the sand over . a dsb is normally used separately to a refugium but may incorporated as may the macro and live rock in combination

and that answers all my questions i had about a refugium. thanks!

I could use ceramic noodles and bio balls couldnt i aswell? i understand that the bioballs are best for water to be "trickling" or being "poured" over, correct?

you wouldnt normally use them in a marine tank they support the wrong type of bacteria and can cause nitrate problems you really want more of the bacteria that eats nitrate use coral rock as it has pores that air cant reach so you get anaerobic bacteria .

A refugium is simply a refuge. A place safe from (usually) fish. Depending on what you are wanting to protect will change what you have in there, normally it will just be live rock. But often people combine the refugium with deep sand beds and macro algae filters. There are pluses and minus's to all these things (DSB's, Refugiums, Algae filters, etc) and it's worth doing a lot of research and working out if you need these things before you add them.

I'm a big fan of starting with a very basic, simple, sump, nothing in it other than the hardware you need (heater, skimmer, return pump, ato. No baffles, bubble traps, dividers, fuge, DSB, etc etc. All these can be added later if you actually need them. Take a DSB for example, it does one job, removes ntrate, but if add one at the start how do you ever know if you actually need one. And good luck trying to remove all that dirty sand. If on the other hand you wait to see if you have a nitrate problem that you can't control via skimming and live rock it's very easy to fill a bucket with sand and put it into the sump (or even external to the sump). People love to add baffles, dividers, bubble traps, they remove so much flexibility from your sump are really hard to remove once in place and most of the time not needed at all.

does there need to be some decent flow in the sump, like a wave maker or something?

The rule of thumb of sump flow is 3-5 x the volume of the display tank per hour, you don't need any other water movement in there.

is there a general rule for the size of sump to the size of the main tank?

as big as you want but not so small that it will overflow if the power goes out

I'm a big fan of starting with a very basic, simple, sump, nothing in it other than the hardware you need (heater, skimmer, return pump, ato. No baffles, bubble traps, dividers, fuge, DSB, etc etc. All these can be added later if you actually need them. Take a DSB for example, it does one job, removes ntrate, but if add one at the start how do you ever know if you actually need one. And good luck trying to remove all that dirty sand. If on the other hand you wait to see if you have a nitrate problem that you can't control via skimming and live rock it's very easy to fill a bucket with sand and put it into the sump (or even external to the sump). People love to add baffles, dividers, bubble traps, they remove so much flexibility from your sump are really hard to remove once in place and most of the time not needed at all.

I've been searching the internet for weeks looking for a paragraph like this! Thanks :happy2:

K so sorry about this. Am a complete dumb nut about sumps. My Questions is What is a sump??? Is a sump just a small tank that is used to filter the display tank water? When is it needed???? What size display tank would you sump?

A sump is another version of a filter. It usually contains all the elements of most cartridge filters (mechanical, biological and sometimes chemical filtration) but has the ability to be scaled easily compared to cartridges. In my opinion it's not worth sumping a tank smaller than 300 litres because there are a lot of affordable canisters to look after tanks this size or smaller.

A sump usually sits under or beside a tank and is mostly fed by overflow/syphon effect, the water then flows through the various filter media and is then pumped back into the display tank. At the end of the day it's another tank attached to your display tank which adds to the total amount of water in the tank which dilutes any ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels until they can be used. The other good part of a sump is you can put heaters etc. in there to keep the clutter out of the main tank.

In my opinion it's not worth sumping a tank smaller than 300 litres because there are a lot of affordable canisters to look after tanks this size or smaller.

one person tells me you shouldn't use a canister for a marine and another says you can. so which is it?

sorry don't mean to sound rude just confused!

one person tells me you shouldn't use a canister for a marine and another says you can. so which is it?

sorry don't mean to sound rude just confused!

Like most things fish related it's not a black and white answer. But in general you wouldn't use a canister filter on a marine tank, the reason being they work very well for filtration which results in nitrate, a very bad thing for invertebrates. Where a canister might be handy is for holding chemical media, like phosphate resin, or for zeolite, or maybe if your running a fish only tank and don't have invertebrates.

But I think your main confusion has started because the discussion has moved to sumps in general, not just marine tank sumps.

Like most things fish related it's not a black and white answer. But in general you wouldn't use a canister filter on a marine tank, the reason being they work very well for filtration which results in nitrate, a very bad thing for invertebrates. Where a canister might be handy is for holding chemical media, like phosphate resin, or for zeolite, or maybe if your running a fish only tank and don't have invertebrates.

But I think your main confusion has started because the discussion has moved to sumps in general, not just marine tank sumps.

Ahh, yeah sorry, I didn't realise this was a salt water discussion. For marine it's sumps all the way!

OOOOOooooohhhhhhhkkkk righto now im not so confuzaled :bounce:

can someone post a pick on here of a tank they have sumpd please?

Anyone used this method?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585

Thinking I might downsize the pipes and do this one myself.

Anyone used this method?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1310585

Thinking I might downsize the pipes and do this one myself.

Im using that method, however i did do things a bit differently As i didn't need a third as its not possible for my sump to overflow my main tank with the way i've designed it.

The one pointed down is always running full siphon and the other is the backup which just trickles

Super, that looks a lot more tidy and simple. I thought 3 was a bit of an overkill, especially sice my sump is almost as big as my display.

Thanks for the pics! :nfs: (tank) :thup:

Super, that looks a lot more tidy and simple. I thought 3 was a bit of an overkill, especially sice my sump is almost as big as my display.

Thanks for the pics! :nfs: (tank) :thup:

Thanks :happy1:

I didn't go for three purly because the way my sumps designed is that the compartment would run dry before it overflow the display incase two got blocked.

however i did do things a bit differently

Silentone did you drill the glass in your Juwel Rio yourself? No problems?

Silentone did you drill the glass in your Juwel Rio yourself? No problems?

Yup i sure did, No problemos I used a diamond bit, wood template (which is a MUST to ensure a good cut), running hose on the cut and a steady speed.

:nilly: