MalcolmX Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 does anyone in nz breed arowanas, or is there no real market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 lol, let me know if you do! :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmX Posted May 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 yea dreams are free, ill let u know in 5 years or so. but i have seen them breeding in videos on u tube! just imagine picking out your own high grade asian arowanas at a reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I may be completely wrong here but my understanding was that all arowana that come in to the country are sterile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Not sure about that, Adrienne, but I'm sure they would have figured a way to do that as well.. Malcolm, the asian arowanas worth having are all technically endangered and are only allowed to be bred by licensed fish farms in Asia. But legality aside, you'll first need an indoor swimming pool with a constant temperature of about 28 deg C, a bunch of high-grade arowanas and plenty of time. From my understanding and reading, in order to find a breeding pair, you must first raise a batch of juveniles and watch which ones pair up. Then you've got to wait for them to reach maturity. From then on, it's all downhill. All you need to do is provide breeding conditions, wait for the father to release the fry from his mouth, then raise the fry as your own. Easy peasy. So.. Time to start :digH: your backyard to install that indoor swimming pool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 does anyone in nz breed arowanas, or is there no real market? Given the costs of achieveing it, there isn't really a market here for locally bred arowanas. Given that the bulk of them come from asia where they can breed them in outdoor ponds, land and labour are cheaper, no need for heating etc, it would be completely uneconomical to try to do it [almost] anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruju Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Not worth the effort, big tropical ponds required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver21 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Not worth the effort, big tropical ponds required. big tropical ponds required to breed large numbers of prawns but theyve done it. makes me wonder how warm a pond will be if you put one in the back lawn in rotorua.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 There's a slightly bigger market for prawns than arowanas.... Hardest part with the thermally heated pond idea would be keeping it constant. I've got no idea how consistant the temp of the water coming out of the ground would be, but it would be an expensive mistake if it suddenly got hotter or colder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver21 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 it would probally be better having an above ground pond with a 'radiator' or heat exchanger buried under ground with a pump connected to a thermostat to pump water through when its cold, and turn the pump off when its reached temp. hmmm makes me want to move to rotorua. or use ryan jurys idea, kinda, and get a insulated shipping container and seal off half of it and full it with water. instant monster fish tank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 it would probally be better having an above ground pond with a 'radiator' or heat exchanger buried under ground with a pump connected to a thermostat to pump water through when its cold, and turn the pump off when its reached temp. hmmm makes me want to move to rotorua. or use ryan jurys idea, kinda, and get a insulated shipping container and seal off half of it and full it with water. instant monster fish tank! Yeah I am sure a system could be designed providing the water coming in was always hot it would be fine.. You would hate to have to actually heat a pool if the incoming water wasn't warm enough. I am sure I have seen photos of a tank that someone made in a shipping container on the net somewhere.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Taupo's prawn farm water is heated from the nearby geothermal power station, which they regulate through their own little control room on site, so the water is always constant. Even if there was a large enough market for arowanas in NZ and it was possible to set up a farm, you'd get shut down unless you have PERMISSION to breed them. Don't forget that all the good strains are microchipped. All you could breed would be greens and silvers, maybe blacks (I think?).. Oh, and jars! lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 shut down unless you have PERMISSION to breed themWhat do you mean by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 you must have a license to breed asian aros What do you mean by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 To breed asian aros, you dont need a license, you need a license to purchase the parents. when you start breeding, to sell them overseas then you require a CITES chip and permit - to export. If youw ere to succesfully breed it in NZ, there would be no stopping you in my opinion to sell it locally. correct me with legislation,. it is merely to stop wild caught arowanas being exported. If you show MAF you have the ponds to breed and show them the process, theyw ill not insist on a cites. It is to protect the local asian rivers from over fishing. Breeding of asian arowana has been done in a huge tank before. Though many breeders suspect that this method is hormone induced - whcih is not desirable in the market. perhaps the farms that naturally breed them have spread enough propaganda against it? who knows. I am unsure if babies from hormone breeding are stunted or not nice - but there isnt a big market for tank bred arowanas. IN asia, they actually put numerous parents in a pond, and they breed in there and pair up naturally. they just catch the parents they know have babies. its mass production really in a way nz, you can breed this im sure in a pond inside a greenhouse backed up by gas heating like butterfly creeks butterfly house, that will sustain the heat. But if you take into account power, upkeep... and local market, you are doomed to failure within your first batch IF you even get that far. Heating alone would be in the thousands per month. THOUGH, if you have enough backing, deep pockets, i believe you can market NZ with its 100% pure reputation and bree daros here, and get the babies CITES approved, then export.... i reckon you can make a dent in the market. Only asian countries breed aros, if NZ did it succesfully in mass, i reckon there COULD be a market, given you take the right steps to market, excecute and promote it in shows. NZ, there is only a handful of buyers. I mean, we have 4million people, in asia, that is the population of a small city. I have personally seen silver arowans bred in indoor spa pool type concrete ponds - its doable, just practicality wise, perhaps not. the cost of trying to breed, set up, you might as well spend that buying a top notch fish. it will cos tyou less in teh long run. i have a RTG for sale, its a beautiful specimen. why dont you buy that from me? its a good price, comes with a tank too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookie Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Taupo's prawn farm water is heated from the nearby geothermal power station, which they regulate through their own little control room on site, so the water is always constant. Even if there was a large enough market for arowanas in NZ and it was possible to set up a farm, you'd get shut down unless you have PERMISSION to breed them. Don't forget that all the good strains are microchipped. All you could breed would be greens and silvers, maybe blacks (I think?).. Oh, and jars! lol. greens are microchipped as well :smln: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 yeah didnt know that i didnt know they were endangered. cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshlikesfish Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I thought all arowana had to be chipped to ensure they came from a legit source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruju Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I thought all arowana had to be chipped to ensure they came from a legit source? only the asian ones, but tbh, with the mass production of line bred specimens they could remove the endangered tag soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 yeah i dont believe tehy are endangered what they actually do is dump specimens that perhaps isnt export quality back to rivers. ths way it stocks it back up and less red tape for future. fraser is right on that one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 lol, maybe they are technically endangered because most of the arowana population is in people's tanks! Don't really see how greens are endangered though.. Aren't they really common in the rivers of Malaysia/ Thailand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Thats the thing with CITES, it only looks into their status in the wild when considering the status. It doesn't matter how many thousand asian arowana are bred in captivity for the aquarium trade, as long as their environment remains threatened by pollution, habitat destruction and over-fishing they will remain on the CITES Appendix I (most endangered). The only other bonytongues on any of the appendices are Arapaima, and they're only Appendix II which means not as endangered (again they are farmed in their thousands for food and release into habitat). Asian arowana aren't being bred for release back into habitat (AFAIK), I guess increasing numbers would just encourage people to catch them for the black market. Many of the strains being bred in captivity have been captive bred for several generations and are quite different to what you would find in habitat anyway. The microchip and certificate is required for any trading of them as they are Appendix I, it is to show they are at least second-generation captive bred. More reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_arowana#Conservation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Thats the thing with CITES, it only looks into their status in the wild when considering the status. It doesn't matter how many thousand asian arowana are bred in captivity for the aquarium trade, as long as their environment remains threatened by pollution, habitat destruction and over-fishing they will remain on the CITES Appendix I (most endangered). The only other bonytongues on any of the appendices are Arapaima, and they're only Appendix II which means not as endangered (again they are farmed in their thousands for food and release into habitat). Asian arowana aren't being bred for release back into habitat (AFAIK), I guess increasing numbers would just encourage people to catch them for the black market. Many of the strains being bred in captivity have been captive bred for several generations and are quite different to what you would find in habitat anyway. The microchip and certificate is required for any trading of them as they are Appendix I, it is to show they are at least second-generation captive bred. More reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_arowana#Conservation Very well researched! :thup: :smln: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Another interesting thing is that they all used to be considered one species (Scleropages formosus) and were so when the CITES agreement for trade was made. Now they have been split into several species and all have been included on the Appendix I by default, thus all asian Scleropages needing a microchip, from the basic green to the most expensive gold crossback purple base fluro head king VIP albino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalcolmX Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 one of the problems with the actual breeding seems to be the pairing. i have read that there are two methods. one, just put a male and female together in a tank and hope they dont rip each other to shreds getting to know each other. if your lucky they stop fighting pair up and begin courting.... two, grow a bunch (six or more) together until mature and let them pair up, then separate to own tank, condition and hope they continue courting and spawn. i havent yet really heard of much/any? success with method one and it does seem like a huge risk of loosing two beautiful fish. method two sounds like what the farmers currently use. it is this method that would aparently require at least one large pond/enclosure to house the maturing siblings. but if you look at this video(cut and past sorry, hope it works) you can see alot of small silver arowana co existing in a ralitivly small space. in this vid you can see posible courting in moderately large tank. note the fin damage on the smaller lighter fish. spawning in tank: these tanks sound like they are just sitting in peoples living rooms. how did they do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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