lduncan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I don't see a contradiction there. Can you spell it out to me? Again, i have never said, or implied, anything to do with what you're arguing about at the moment. It appears to be all in your mind. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 an interesting topic of debate and highly amusing retorts from the two of you,... but for f@#$@# sake either give it up or get to a conclusion. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Fair enough point Chimera. I will try to refrain from arguing over stupidities. I am though, interested in intelligent discussion about zeovit. This would require keeping unsubstantiated theories, misinformation, and posts that say the opposite to what the person said yesterday, to a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 This would require keeping unsubstantiated theories, misinformation, and posts that say the opposite to what the person said yesterday, to a minimum. Time for a new theory... Zeovit impairs reading comprehension. No proof, just a suspicion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 No proof, just a suspicion. As Usual. And I hope that was the final jab. Let's get to some sensible discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 So going back a few pages; I don't have any proof for that for you. Thomas Pohl has stated that those things will apply in a zeovit system, but of course Layton you are not going to take his word are you :lol: . Have you investigated this further yet. Managed to find out why i say this? Also, you are quick to discount my statements, why are you not just as suspicious of Thomas Pohl's? He at least has a strong motive for spreading misinformation. Why would I just make up the stuff i have said? What motive do I have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Also, you are quick to discount my statements, why are you not just as suspicious of Thomas Pohl's? Because Thomas Pohl is a professional coral farmer who earns his living selling beautifully coloured corals. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. But hey, I really want to get away from this personal stuff - who really wants to read it? Again, let's go with some sensible, worthwhile discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Because Thomas Pohl is a professional coral farmer who earns his living selling beautifully coloured corals. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. That has nothing to do with whether or not he knows how the system works though. (And is not proof of anything other than he has colourful corals) Once more for the record, I'm not saying (and have never said) that zeovit does not affect coral colouration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Thanks Guys, This has been brilliant advertising for zeovit. Brendan Zeovit NZ/Aussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I have been hesitate to post in case it stops the rich informational exchange...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 :lol: I'll take that as a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Hmmm.... Not sure if you guys are kidding or not :lol: :lol: More enquiries Brendan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 This is god damn beautiful!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 ADDED 500mls of Phosphate Remover last night. Still running the Zeovit as well, keeping a very close eye on everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Fish have adjusted to less feeding, but I feel mean :oops: Looks like I lost my golden headed sleeper goby I'm not sure what was wrong with him but I did my best for him, sad can still see his little face looking at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Well Fay I'm a bit dubious about this, as you know. ( And so is my buddy Layton ) However, fingers crossed, very much hoping this works out for you. You must keep us posted. Maybe at higher Po4 levels it will be OK, but when they come down you will have to be careful. By the way, that brown algae you mentioned the other day, it may have been a brown slimeyish film you get from overdosing start. If so, the film is actually bacteria, and not a bad thing for water quality, just looks bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Also, chemical phosphate removers are only good at getting rid of phosphates you can test for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Maybe at higher Po4 levels it will be OK, but when they come down you will have to be careful. How many times. Any problems which may or may not occur will not have anything to do with phosphate levels, and how quickly or not they are lowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Well Fay I'm a bit dubious about this, as you know. What sort of problems could it cause on Fays tank.??First there is no real scientific proof that phosphate removers cause problems when using with zeovit and she cant get RTN as she does not have any SPS coral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Reef<> Had a talk with Brendan before starting Phosphate remover and we came to the same conclusion as you. Tested last night 1+ down from 2 its moving, keeping a very careful eye on things. While talking to Brendan he also suggested running my skimmer wetter, never really new what this was, so now giving it ago, also clean out cup daily. Will test phos and nitrates this evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 down to 1ppm already,Thats good news. Well i tested my phostphate again. after adding 1L of salifert po4 remover. Using my colormeter i got a surprise, had to test twice. it read .35ppm up from .19ppm. so after using po4 remover for two days it went up. I think there is a problem with the meter as retested with deltec test kit and salifert, both read about .092ppm, which is low, bloody meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 How many times. Any problems which may or may not occur will not have anything to do with phosphate levels, and how quickly or not they are lowered. How many times indeed? I do wonder, because we have discussed this before. You still continue to miss the whole point. Lowering nutrients quickly may not of itself do any harm, it is what they are lowered to that can be a problem. If they are lowered below what is required for coral health, then harm can result. I thought that should have been a fairly simple concept. Don't see why you keep asking about it. That is the simple answer. If you want something a little more in depth, an sps from an excessively high nutrient environment will likely contain a high level of zooxanthellae. A sudden and catastrophic drop in nutrients can shock the entire symbiotic zoox system, both of zoox and of host, requiring re adjustment, and that can also cause problems such as bleaching. I am sure you are probably aware of all that, please pause to think for a couple of minutes before hitting the reply button with some knee jerk response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 That is a rather naive response. You think that you can deplete the bioavailable phosphate to a level which it can be limiting? And then do it fast enough that corals (and zooxanthellae) can not adjust? There are reservoirs of phosphate throughout your tank, whether you can detect them with a test kit or not. You are adding phosphate when you feed, phosphate is released when things decay. You would be difficult to even force a condition where phosphate is really limiting. Zooxanthellae need very little phosphate to live. The require light, carbon dioxide and water to sustain themselves. They use phosphate mainly for reproducing. Dropping phosphate and nitrate is not going to cause a mass dieoff of zooxanthellae. Nor is it going to cause expulsion by the coral, because the populations are the same as they were before the nutrients dropped, and they still have all the food they need. BTW What do you class as a catastrophic drop in nutrients? A substantial and rapid increase in limiting nutrients, on the other hand, is likely to cause problems like zooxanthellae expulsion (bleaching). So how about basing your thoughts on real life research rather than crude conclusion drawing. Hope that wasn't too knee jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 That is a rather naive response.. Wrong You think that you can deplete the bioavailable phosphate to a level which it can be limiting? And then do it fast enough that corals (and zooxanthellae) can not adjust?. yes There are reservoirs of phosphate throughout your tank, whether you can detect them with a test kit or not. We argued over this before, glad you have realised now. You are adding phosphate when you feed, phosphate is released when things decay. You would be difficult to even force a condition where phosphate is really limiting.. Sometimes yes, sometimes no Zooxanthellae need very little phosphate to live. The require light, carbon dioxide and water to sustain themselves. They use phosphate mainly for reproducing.. But they need phosphate Dropping phosphate and nitrate is not going to cause a mass dieoff of zooxanthellae. Nor is it going to cause expulsion by the coral, because the populations are the same as they were before the nutrients dropped, and they still have all the food they need.. You still don't see the full story BTW What do you class as a catastrophic drop in nutrients? . a drop big enough to be of catastrophic consequence A substantial and rapid increase in limiting nutrients, on the other hand, is likely to cause problems like zooxanthellae expulsion (bleaching).. correct but not the full story So how about basing your thoughts on real life research rather than crude conclusion drawing.. some irony in that remark Layton Hope that wasn't too knee jerk. could have used more thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 Phosphates down 1+ to 1- Nitrates seem to be responding slowly to less feeding 15- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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