chris_kerryn Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 My little blue tang has got the white spot itch. I noticed it last night. he has heaps of small white spots and is scratching himself and is sitting in front of the powerhead. He also appears to be breathing quite rapidly. My clown fish appears fine. My book advised that lowering the salinity short term can help to remidy this. I lowered it to about 1.020 last night. Can really tell at the moment if it has improved as he is hiding, but I can still see the parasites on him if thats what they are. I dont have a quaratine tank or anything. I could make up a bath in a 20l bucket for a while, but to get him out I will probably have to pull everything out. If I do get him out and treat him, wont there still be the bugs in the tank? Help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 The only way that I have heared off to treat saltwater ich (whitespot) is with copper. This is really bad if you ever intend to have invertibrates in the tank as they can't tollerate it at all and it is hard to remove all traces off the copper. I have also heard that the copper only masks the problem anyway. the best thing to do imo would be a freshwater dip for between 1 and 3 minuts this will kill the white spot but you have to make sure the temp and ph is exactly the same. you really want to get him out of your main tank also, white spot is a parasitic infection that has a cycle the white spots drop of the fish and are the cysts (i think) this is when they multiply and attack the other fish good luck Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Ch0ris_Kerryn - I belive you may be on the way to doing more damage than the 'white spot' your fish has. Lowering salinity (hyposalinity) will help with ich, but you need to do it slowly. Dropping it more than .001 per day is dangerous and stressfull for the fish. I think you have made a mistake reacting so quickly. Also hyposalinity should really only be done in a quarantine tank, not in the main tank. Think about how much stress you have caused the blue tang and EVERYTHING else in the tank. Many fish including blue tangs live with parsites that manifest them self as white spots when the fish is stressed. When I moved my tang just recently is was COVERED in whitspots, several weeks on its as clean as a whistle. No other fish effected. If it was me I would make sure the animal is well fed, along with the rest of the tank. And insted of changing the fishs diet (garlic will no doubt be brought up, I would reccomend against it) and changing the water conditions (hyposalinity, treatments) I would look at providing as stress free environment for the fish as you can. Feed it, keep your hands out of the tank, don't add stock, keep the water paramaters spot on. With the 5 outbreaks of whitespot i've had so far, this has resloved it each and every time and so far I have lost no fish to it. Don't over react, stability is the key to avoiding fish loss. Whitespot on marines is quite different from whitespot on freshwater. So don't panic, keep calm and it will work it self out. Good luck Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Chris, hyposalinity does not work unless you drop the salinity down to 1.015, which is not good for corals. If the fish have white spot then it is stressed for some reason, check water quality,ph, nitrate,nitrite etc. You can get salifert stop parasite, which is safe for coral. it is a pepper based treatment which helps to remove the slim from the fishs coat thus causing the white spot to drop off. It does work if the fish is not that badly covered. Blue tangs normally get white spot anyway and if the water is fine it goes away in about a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 hows its appitite?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 The sure way is to quaranteen all fish for 8 weeks so parasites in the tank will die. Treat the fish with copper and return to tank. But if this is not possible Garlic can work, but must be done right. Don't use the bottled product, only freshly ground cloves should be used for best effect. check this http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuzza Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 All you have to do is turn your temp up to 28-29c .I garranty this works.The white spot cant reproduce.I have used this method for nine years without a death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Increasing temp only means that whitespot will breed quicker. i have never read anything that says that they stop breeding at 29c. Normally fish dont died of whitespot, but died from secondary bactarial infection. here is a link that will help http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/mini1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted December 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Lots of different opinions, where do you start? I did another water change this morning, which will help, has brought up the salinity a bit. will bring it up slowly from now. I wasnt keen to do that either but we were panicking last night my partner pressured me into it as the forum was down so we relied on our book which said it should be ok in a short burst. Nothing looks too stressed though. I think they are used to it in my tank. I noticed the tang has been hiding out during the day in the last few days but comes out at night. perhaps he has been stressed. I have got some garlic to mix in with the food today from Hollywoods. will try this for a few days. They did mention the bottle mix to kill parasites but have had different opinions on that too. Seems there is a different opinion no matter what you do. I will start feeding them more. will try twice a day now. Have not been feeding much as I was scared of over feeding. had no ammonia problems so this seems ok to do. All tests seem ok. nitrates always been up a bit. My Nitrates are starting to creep up slowly. now at 20mg/l. have normally been about 10 since setting up. I do water changes every week. Not sure how to remedy this. Could it be the trickle filter? I am tempted to just remove it altogether but am not sure if it is needed. Could the nitrates be building up in the noddles? I have some macro algae which is supposed to help but it isnt doing anything. I have about 10kg of rock in the tank (75l ). and heaps of circulation. only about 3-4 kg was brought as live rock and the rest as dead rock but is growing stuff on it. would this be sufficient to remove the trickle filter? I have a small skimmer too. I want to do the sump still but other half wont let me drill the tank, probably a wise move. I brought an alkalininty test kit today also. Kh = 8.8 and Alk = 3.03. Is this too high? Not keen on removing the fish as I would need to clean out the whole tank again which I just did a couple of weeks ago to catch the damsel before putting these guys in. If the garlic doesnt work or fish gets worse I will try the bottle mix you add to the tank. Never ending problems...... Kids should be easy after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 I have read trickle filters are bad in saltwater because they work so efficiently (lots of air for the bacteria to multiply on) that they brakedown wastes into high nitrate levels some people gut the trickle filter and just keep it for flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 The odds of the bottled garlic working are a lot lower than fresh garlic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 The odds of the bottled garlic working are a lot lower than fresh garlic. I'd like to see the science behind this statement. From everything i've read about garlic nothing compels me to belive it doesn't anything but add additional stress to the tank inhabiance. Increaseing temprature will not kill the whitespot, it will however increase the lifecyle of the parasite. Raising the temprature it popular in freshwater when medicating the tank as the cysts fall off they are killed by the medication. If your not medicating the tank it will just cause it to spread quicker. 8.8alk is OK, perhapps a little high, but lots of people belive (including eric bourneman) that running it between 8-9 is benificial. But this is talking about coral health, not fish. From what I understand the fish will be OK as long as its stable. If the alk is high, the PH will be stable, which is a good thing. Pie Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 I agree with Pies's first post. Do NOTHING. Make sure the fish is well fed (as it should be) and keep water parameters at there normal levels. Stress induces whitespot outbreaks. My blue tank will get a few spots every 6 months or so, which disappear in less than a week. As long as there environment is suitable, it will be fine. I have never actively treated ich, and have never lost a fish to it. If the fish is not eating, then I would be more worried. Pies - garlic apparently has a compound in it which is supposedly stimulates many fish to eat. In humans it apparently strengthens the immune system, maybe it has the same effect on fish too? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 i know that garlic does a few things to me :-? doesnt stop me eating it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 I'd like to see the science behind this statement. Pie Pie Here's some science, quoted it before but you may not have read. http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html It has been shown in lab testing that chemicals in garlic will kill Cryptocaryon irritans ( marine ich ). However what many do not know is that the garlic losses much of it's effectiveness within a few hours of being crushed. That is why people complain they used something out of a bottle and it did not work, hence I have posted the article so that people can use garlic in an informed way. All this and answers to your question documented in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 The garlic does seem to work if the fish are still eating. Stu at Hollywood used it on a customers tank and within 1 week all the fish had no white spot. The garlic he used was made by ecosystem which comes in a bottle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Wasp - I've seen that link before. All it sais is that in theory garlic (or the ingrediants that make up gralic) could/should work based on its teristal properties. Doesn't say if it does work, how to use it, how much to use etc. I am more worried about the negitive aspects of it, given that its a change in the diet of the fish, it doesn't feel like its particulary natural (not much garlic in the ocean) and too much garlic in humans can cause sickness and nausia. Garlic away if you must, but its looks like an risk for unknown benifit. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 never seen a skimmer in the ocean, but then again my diving experiance's are limited to NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevan Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 try a cleaner shrimp they are good at keeping tangs white spot free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 ala natural skimmer-check out the foam on the beach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 never seen a skimmer in the ocean, but then again my diving experiance's are limited to NZ What a STUPID response. I've never seen a 300 watt heater but the oceans in the tropics are warm, i'ver never seen a blue actinic light hanging from the sky yet everything underwater is blue and i've never seen a TUNZE stream whilst diving yet there are still water currents. A skimmer helps the aquairist maintain the water conditions found in nature, where as garlic is a foerign substance not found in the oceans or a fishes diet naturally. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Hmmm... I think what he meant, in a humerous way, is that truly "natural" methods cannot realistically be exclusively relied on in a tank. After all, our tanks are not "natural" we have to maintain them by artificial means, and if we did not, they would be dead in weeks. What applies in the ocean does not apply in the confines of our tanks. Therefore, for me anyway, I do not have an ideological objection to using any means that does not appear in the ocean. For example, Joes Juice, copper treatment, plastic hose or garlic are not found naturally in the ocean, but I do not have a problem using any of those in my tank, in order to achieve what mother nature cannot in the confines of my tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Wasp - I don't disagree completely. Although I would like to think that I am emulating nature as closely as possible (given the constraits). I artificially alter the chemical composition of the water to be the same as it is in nature (CA reactor, skimmer, heater etc). I don't use copper, joes juice, metheline blue, bleech or any other additives or preservitives. I too have no objections to using something that mother nature can't provide in our tanks, yet I struggle to see what garlic is providing. If you think garlic works I doubt anything I can say will change your or anyone elses mind. However I would think no-one would disagree that stressing an already sick fish further is going to help, and changing its diet to something like garlic in an instant seems very reactionary and FAD, like water beds and adding vodka to your tank. This is my objection, nothing to to with garlic itself. My point stands, stable healthy conditions will do more good than feeding garlic, dropping salinity, increasing temprature or dosing anti-whitespot fomulas. There is a time for intervention, its when you have no other options. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 that gives me an idea, hmm.........i wonder.........can you get fish drunk.....? Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Vodka is a known, though not widely used, reef tank additive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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