Algae ID and help needed.

[Brennos]

So as I mentioned in an earlier thread (or two) I have been really slack on tank maintenance, due to not having many fish in the tank, so 2 weeks ago I decided to do a massive clean and reshuffle some stuff around. while I was doing it I noticed this green carpet like slime on lots of plants and gravel. It hasn't seemed to migrate to anywhere else, just on the floor of the tank. its easy to vacuum up and get rid of that way, but it keeps coming back. I got the majority of it 2 weeks ago, and today upon investigating the plants there is more back. Can some one ID the type of algae it is for me (circled in the pics) and maybe give me some insight into how to reduce/get rid of it permanently?

Tank Water Conditions

Ammonia = 0ppm

Nitrate = 0ppm

nitrite = 0ppm

phosphate = 0ppm

KH = 0°-3° (0-50 ppm)

ph = 6.9

Planted with Java fern s. microfilia (spelling) and some sword thing Fish are 1 Female Bristlenose, 3 panda corys (new yesterday) 2 german rams (new yesterday), and 12 Cardinals (new yesterday)

Pics:

[Jennifer]

Cyanobacteria. There is a lot of info on here if you do a search.

[Brennos]

Thanks Jennifer.

[phoenix44]

Cyano. It is still at a very early phase at the moment, so I would remove all of it manually and hope to hell it does not come back.

If you have a UV steriliser - switch it on.

If it spreads like wild fire, and it sometimes does; antibiotics get rid of it as it is a bacteria despite the common name of blue green algae.

[Brennos]

Cyano. It is still at a very early phase at the moment, so I would remove all of it manually and hope to hell it does not come back.

If you have a UV steriliser - switch it on.

If it spreads like wild fire, and it sometimes does; antibiotics get rid of it as it is a bacteria despite the common name of blue green algae.

My uv filter is on 24/7. I manually removed about the same amount 2 weeks ago, and yesterday removed about half as much again. I have just started dosing with Flourish, and flourish excel, and will manually remove as much as I can tomorrow night. Considering getting the Nitrates up to around 5ppm, but a little unsure of how to do this, but many sites recommend doing this to stop the cyno. Your thoughts on this?

[phoenix44]

Considering getting the Nitrates up to around 5ppm, but a little unsure of how to do this, but many sites recommend doing this to stop the cyno. Your thoughts on this?

No Idea.

I occasionally get a small patch of it growing in-between the glass and the foreground plants. It does not spread and is easy as ever to remove. I think it is possible for it to grow in harmony in some tanks if a balance is reached.

[Jennifer]

Cyanobacteria is in the tank all the time but can take advantage in the right conditions. It usually responds to a good tidy up and increased flow. The uv filter will be degrading the ferts so it would be best if you only use it when you have to (most people think it is beneficial for reducing parasite burdens but this only works with greater than 18 watt tubes which are far less common than the 9 watt variety). You can increase nitrates by increasing plant ferts or increasing the amount of food you feed the fish (within reason of course). Obviously there are risks with other types of algae if you increase nutrients. If it were me, I would just remove what you see, keep on top of hygiene and see how you go.

[Brennos]

Cyanobacteria is in the tank all the time but can take advantage in the right conditions. It usually responds to a good tidy up and increased flow. The uv filter will be degrading the ferts so it would be best if you only use it when you have to (most people think it is beneficial for reducing parasite burdens but this only works with greater than 18 watt tubes which are far less common than the 9 watt variety). You can increase nitrates by increasing plant ferts or increasing the amount of food you feed the fish (within reason of course). Obviously there are risks with other types of algae if you increase nutrients. If it were me, I would just remove what you see, keep on top of hygiene and see how you go.

That's my plan. I have been eyeing up a AL-20D 24inch double light hood, that will fit perfectly on my tank, so that's next on the list of purchases, but I doubt that's going to help this issue. I'll just keep cleaning what I can see and go from there. Cheers.

[alanmin4304]

A lot of algae problems are caused by too much phosphate in relation to nitrate. The phosphate is usually from the food. See if you can get food which will produce low phoshate. The nitrate is from the nitrogen cycle and will increase natually from waste from your fish. You could add a small quantity of a soluble nitrate but better to decrease the phosphate I think.

[Brennos]

I have been testing for phosphate daily for the last 2 weeks, and non has been present, i'll continue testing and see if i can get some to come up on the test chart.

[alanmin4304]

What is the minimum reading of phosphate your test kit registers?

[Brennos]

Its an API test kit.

0.0

0.25

0.5

1.0

2.0

5.0

10.0

Mine is at 0.0, or possibly .025 No more than that.

[John Rimbauer]

I've had a similar outbreak, caused mainly by zero nitrates and low phosphates. As the cyano can fix it's own nitrogen it can take off.

I now dose Potassium Nitrate to maintain my levels - about a quarter tsp in 100L per week. The phosphate comes in via food, and the plants and water changes keep things more or less in balance. This got rid of my cyano with no further intervention.

[Brennos]

I've had a similar outbreak, caused mainly by zero nitrates and low phosphates. As the cyano can fix it's own nitrogen it can take off.

I now dose Potassium Nitrate to maintain my levels - about a quarter tsp in 100L per week. The phosphate comes in via food, and the plants and water changes keep things more or less in balance. This got rid of my cyano with no further intervention.

Potassium nitrate is fertiliser?

[phoenix44]

yeap. it sure is. good one too, but you need to be careful with it.

[John Rimbauer]

yeap. it sure is. good one too, but you need to be careful with it.

What he said.

But it bears repeating - be careful with it.

Dose a tiny bit and then measure your nitrates after it dissolves and mixes through the tank. If it's still low, dose a teeny bit more, test again a while later. I OD'd the tank the first two or three times, not to the point of having to do a water change, but bad enough. I had to dose and measure until I worked out what level I needed to dose at to maintain 5-10ppm. That will vary from tank to tank depending on feeding, stocking, lighting, planting, etc.

[Brennos]

Ok, so the cyno is as prevalent as ever. I have manually removed as much as I can, but it keeps coming back, and I can't remove all of it, due to obstructions like rocks, and wood. I have just done a 20% water change, dosed with Flourish, and Flourish Excel. So I'm ready to try Potassium Nitrite. We have some Yates Thrive here, which is a liquid Plant Fertilizer.

On the back of it it tells me it contains:

Total Nitrogen (N) as Urea 12.4%

Total Phosphorus (P) as water soluble 3%

Total Potassium (K) as Hydroxide 6.2%

Magnesium (Mg) as Sulphate 0.01%

Manganese (Mn) as EDTA Chelate 0.008%

Iron (Fe)as FDTA Chelate 0.008%

This Product contains less than 1ppm Lead 0.5ppm Cadmium and 0.2ppm Mercury. This product contains 50% w/v solids and 50% w/v water.

Will this product be suitable for my needs?

[phoenix44]

Everything is OK, except the Urea

Urea undergoes a series of reactions and breaks down into CO2 and Ammonia.

Do not use urea in an aquatic environment with fauna.

[Brennos]

So I need to find something with out urea in it. Is that even possible with plant ferts?

[John Rimbauer]

So I need to find something with out urea in it. Is that even possible with plant ferts?

If you're ever over in Waiuku, I can give you some Potassium Nitrate. A cupful should go a fair way.

When I first started having deficiencies in my tanks, I tried garden products. The purity of them - in terms of byproducts and contaminants - is shocking. That's why I ended up going to hydroponic ferts.

If you absolutely have to, and there is no choice, you can dose ammonium compounds. In theory the plants will absorb them preferentially to nitrate, and will do so before they can harm the fish. The line between fertilising the plants and annihilating your fish is pretty fine though. I did it once, very carefully, and it was enough to upset some of the fish. No fatalities, but I still wouldn't recommend it.

[fishplants]

Hey Brennos,

FWIW, I had an outbreak of BGA sometime ago. It was a real bad one and covered absolutely everything in the tank, except the fish, although if they had sat still for long enough I'm sure they would have got covered too!

I spent a long period of vacuuming the stuff out every day, but it just kept regenerating. I didn't increase fertilisers at all, I went to Animates and bought heaps of cheap plants and planted these, continuing with the extremely frequent vacuuming. The BGA growth slowed down, so I vacuumed less, then one day I vacuumed out the last mat. That was about 8-9 years ago and never seen it since (except for some persisting below gravel level).

I don't know what caused it to die off, whether it was the frequency of the vacuuming (ie water changes), or the increased plant mass absorbing available nutrients, or a combination of the two.

As for Nitrates, my tanks always have 5-10ppm in them - as it is in our tapwater.

[Brennos]

Hey Brennos,

FWIW, I had an outbreak of BGA sometime ago. It was a real bad one and covered absolutely everything in the tank, except the fish, although if they had sat still for long enough I'm sure they would have got covered too!

I spent a long period of vacuuming the stuff out every day, but it just kept regenerating. I didn't increase fertilisers at all, I went to Animates and bought heaps of cheap plants and planted these, continuing with the extremely frequent vacuuming. The BGA growth slowed down, so I vacuumed less, then one day I vacuumed out the last mat. That was about 8-9 years ago and never seen it since (except for some persisting below gravel level).

I don't know what caused it to die off, whether it was the frequency of the vacuuming (ie water changes), or the increased plant mass absorbing available nutrients, or a combination of the two.

As for Nitrates, my tanks always have 5-10ppm in them - as it is in our tapwater.

Were on rain water, so It has very little of anything. I'm trying to get me some NO3, from trademe, but I don't want to buy a kilo of it, as I just wont use that in a lifetime lol.

[fishplants]

Have you tired a garden centre? That's where I got mine from. I had to ask for it as they didn't have it on display, they also wanted to know what I wanted it for - can use it to make explosives apparently.

[Brennos]

Have you tired a garden centre? That's where I got mine from. I had to ask for it as they didn't have it on display, they also wanted to know what I wanted it for - can use it to make explosives apparently.

Bought some on trademe for $4 lol. Now i just need John to tell me how much to use, and how he doses it?

[John Rimbauer]

Bought some on trademe for $4 lol. Now i just need John to tell me how much to use, and how he doses it?

Hmmm, I'm at around a 1/4 tsp dry powder each week in 100L with about 50% water changes weekly. If you're already testing at zero nitrates, I'd suggest you use that rate, and measure the drop in level over the next couple of days.

The rate of drop might change suddenly if you run low on another nutrient - say iron, or magnesium, or whatever.

My current regime (heh, now I sound pretentious ) is about the same amount of potassium sulphate, potassium nitrate, trace elements mix, and 1/2 a tsp of MgSO4- epsom salts. Dosing that level keeps phosphate as the growth limiting factor for the plants and algae in my tank.