Chemical warfare

[Bilbo]

Quick followup. That fish died and I dont think I ever really got rid of the worms, Perhaps one died inside of him that caused his death But I am only guessing that. I do know that a few days before he died I saw another worm live sticking out of him.

Now I have a female with 2 clearly visible worms sticking out.

2ppm has never worked so I went back to some old information that is linked to from the loaches page.

I dosed at around 12ppm

2.5mls of 24% in 50 liters.

http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/CamallanusTr ... edure.html

This was dosed twice over 5 days with a 100% water change in the middle in a clean 50ltr tank with only a sponge filter.

Female still happy and eating but definately still infected with live worms.

Next I purchased some Panacur 100 which is fenbendazole at 10%. Used 3 mls in a bowl with 2 blocks of blood-worms soaked for 2 hours and fed that. They ate that mixture twice over 3 days with no other food but the worm is still visible 3 days later (6 days after starting fenbendazole).

I know some of you will say I am wasting my meds with high dosages but I think its silly to have a box with a heap of 1/2 full medications and no live fish left to treat.

All my fish are looking healthy and colourful.

pH is low at around 5.5 - 6 and tank has been in darkness during treatment.

Any other suggestions?

[Jennifer]

Are the worms still there now? Often they will become paralysed by the medication but will eventually be passed after a few days. If they are still alive, repeat the dose or try a double dose. Regardless, consider doing a follow up treatment after two weeks. Keep us updated.

[BikBok]

eek.. callamanus worms.

They were my first introduction of fish illness. In fact the very first fish i bought .. a shop bought guppy came to me infected with callamanus.

So 1 week after I set up my new tank as an absolute beginner ,. I was having to learn very quickly about parasite treatment and isolation etc etc. I didn't save that guppy because the darn aviverm (levamsiole) got held up at the supplier and I didn't get it in time.

But I treated the rest of the tank and didn't have any further problems. All you can do is keep gravel vacuuming and retreating till they're gone. Once you see the worm stage they are already releasing the eggs.

[Bilbo]

Moved all fish to a new tank with 100% clean equipment and water.

The thin thread like red worm is still withdrawing back in when ever the fish moves rapidly so I think its still alive. If the fish sits still I can see at least 2 sticking out.

I have starved the fish for a day and then tried to add 1 drop of aviverm to some meat mix but they wont eat it so I removed that and then dosed the tank with 2.5mls of Aviverm in 50ltrs (12ppm) last night. Worms still look alive this morning.

I have been given some of an old barrel of High Mineral Levamisole 40% with Selenium from a sheep farm but I am hesitant to use it unless I have to.

[A-town...]

where can you get Levamisole from?

[BikBok]

where can you get Levamisole from?

I got mine from www.hippo.co.nz under the name aviverm. I also use it to deworm my birds once a year.

BirdBarn in west auckland also sell it.

[Jennifer]

Try a double dose treatment of Levamisole (only use Aviverm as it is pure levamisole) and/or Fenbendazole. If after 24 hours you still see the worms moving, repeat the dose. Redose after 7 and 14 days and remove all substrate if you can (a bit extreme but if you have drug resistance, you need to get rid of the ongoing risk for re-infestation. It is best to feed the medication orally. You can use both chemicals together, at the same time.

Remember, medications of any kind can pose a health risk, especially if the animal is debilitated, and this is especially true as dose rates increase (although these particular medications are generally known to be safe at more than 10 times the regular dose rate). In any case, use at your own risk.

[A-town...]

will it work on all worms or just some?

[Jennifer]

Those dewormers only work primarily for nematodes/roundworms. If you are wanting to treat for flukes and tapeworms you will need to use praziquantel. If you are wanting to treat for flagellates/protozoa you will need to use metronidazole.

Don't double dose unless you really need to or you could end up with resistance issues that you can't safely resolve. Aim to use the exact dose rate for the exact amount of time and them remove it quickly from the tank so you don't end up with a low dose that could promote resistance as well.

[fishplants]

Those dewormers only work primarily for nematodes/roundworms. If you are wanting to treat for flukes and tapeworms you will need to use praziquantel. If you are wanting to treat for flagellates/protozoa you will need to use metronidazole.

Don't double dose unless you really need to or you could end up with resistance issues that you can't safely resolve. Aim to use the exact dose rate for the exact amount of time and them remove it quickly from the tank so you don't end up with a low dose that could promote resistance as well.

Hi Jennifer,

could you please confirm that Levamisole and Fenbendazole are not effective on tapeworms. I thought in a previous thread you said that Fenbedazole (Panacur) did both roundworms and tapeworms? The reason I ask is that I want to do a precautionary dose on some new discus I am getting, and just wanted to use one chemical rather than two.

Thanks

[Jennifer]

Fenbendazole has shown some clinical efficacy against some tapeworms and flukes. It is often what we use against these parasites when there is praziquantel resistance. However, there are limitations with any medication and in general praziquantel works very well against virtually all trematodes (flatworms like tapeworms and flukes) so it is the drug of choice if you know these parasites are present.

Praziquantel is safe to use in conjunction with Levamisole and Fenbendazole.

[fishplants]

Fenbendazole has shown some clinical efficacy against some tapeworms and flukes. It is often what we use against these parasites when there is praziquantel resistance. However, there are limitations with any medication and in general praziquantel works very well against virtually all trematodes (flatworms like tapeworms and flukes) so it is the drug of choice if you know these parasites are present.

Praziquantel is safe to use in conjunction with Levamisole and Fenbendazole.

Thanks Jennifer, much appreciated.

[fishplants]

Just spoken to my vet. She said a good combination is Praziquantel in water and Fenbendazole in food. She recommended staying away from Levamisole due to toxicity, much harder to cause damage with the other two.

cheers

[ryanjury]

Just spoken to my vet. She said a good combination is Praziquantel in water and Fenbendazole in food. She recommended staying away from Levamisole due to toxicity, much harder to cause damage with the other two.

cheers

I find that interesting levamisole is known to be very safe causing no harm in massive doses even upto 25mg/L..

[Jennifer]

I find that interesting levamisole is known to be very safe causing no harm in massive doses even upto 25mg/L..

That is correct. In other animal species, Levamisole has gone out of favour for many reasons mainly to do with reactions associated with injectable use but in fish it has proven safety at large doses (the oral LD50 for most mammals is between 200mg/kg and 1000mg/kg). Most anthelmintics are generally safe at many times the therapeutic dose and in the aquatics ward we often dosed at many times the therapeutic dose over several days in a row when we encountered confirmed drug resistance problems.

One of the biggest benefits of using Levamisole is that it is very soluble in water compared to fenbendazole which can settle out in suspension. Levamisole can also be administered topically (on the skin), enterally (by mouth) or parenterally (by intravenous or subcutaneous injection). Fenbendazole is a very effective medication but it is poorly absorbed through the gills so it is best given orally (by feeding). Either way, if you are routinely deworming your fish (e.g. on a regular schedule more than once per year) you should rotate between the two drugs or resistance is very likely to occur.

Again, praziquantel can be safely combined with either of these drugs if you want to deworm for cestodes and trematodes as well.

[fishplants]

Thanks for that, maybe it is the reactions that you mention Jennifer, that caused my vet to suggest not using it in fish.

Jennifer, do you mind if I ask, what are your qualifications regarding your medication knowledge? I don't mean to appear rude, but you seem to know a lot about medications/chemicals etc.

Thanks.

[Jennifer]

Pm'd as I don't want to drag this thread off topic.

[BURN]

where can you get Levamisole from?

The BIRD BARN on Lincoln Road Henderson sells the CURE. Aviverm

[BURN]

These fishy worms will also affect humans ?. As most worms that birds get Dogs etc can also get and humans can also get what dogs etc get.

[BURN]

Those dewormers only work primarily for nematodes/roundworms. If you are wanting to treat for flukes and tapeworms you will need to use praziquantel. If you are wanting to treat for flagellates/protozoa you will need to use metronidazole.

Don't double dose unless you really need to or you could end up with resistance issues that you can't safely resolve. Aim to use the exact dose rate for the exact amount of time and them remove it quickly from the tank so you don't end up with a low dose that could promote resistance as well.

This is great Info.

[Bilbo]

Its back.

Noticed a Bolivian ram with a few worms yesterday morning so I dosed it with the correct dose of aviverm and then 5 hours later I added 3 drops of the avi hi-min 40% stuff to 60 litres of water. 30 minutes later I started syphoning the worms off the bottom and then by last night I did a 100% water change.

This morning I put the ram into a new clean tank and it looks good with no sign of any problems. After losing 3 large worms I guess it will be over the moon and its eating really well. Tomorrow will be the day to start on everything else. Lost a big pile of fish recently so not many to treat.

I don't know if this is the same infection I had 6 months ago or a new one but either way I am getting tired of treating for this worm. :an!gry

[phoenix44]

how do you keep getting these worms?