Ant N Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Hamills in Manukau are screening this tonight. Anyone else going? I'm a fence sitting, closet greenie,feral cat hating hunter myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant N Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 No longer a fence sitter!! Ariel dropping of 1080 is WRONG. Please if you have any feelings for New Zealand Wild life and bush, see this DVD."Poisoning Paradise-Ecocide in New Zealand" It is an eye opener. I wasn't the only one to wipe away tears at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 did it show much about the birds eating it? i've seen their earlier doco, while it was good i thought if they'd concentrated more on the effects on our natives they'd gain alot more support. However horribly they die, alot of people see dead deer etc as exactly what we want, and just something for the hunters to moan about. Something i thought was very telling was the letters to our local paper lately. One person wrote in about how good 1080 is, and the next few weeks it was packed with letters from cow farmers about how its destroyed their 'morning chorus' and killed most of the birds on their blocks. These being the farmers who are supposed to support 1080 protecting them from tb. I can't see why we don't just have paid pest controllers. The amount spent on 1080 last year is enough to hire and train 840 young jobless people, buy them a ute and gun, pay their petrol and a wage of 60k to go out shooting and trapping possums, deer, pigs etc. The meat could then be used by the local community, maybe distributed by the foodbank or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze-dragon Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Something i thought was very telling was the letters to our local paper lately. One person wrote in about how good 1080 is, and the next few weeks it was packed with letters from cow farmers about how its destroyed their 'morning chorus' and killed most of the birds on their blocks. These being the farmers who are supposed to support 1080 protecting them from tb. I can't see why we don't just have paid pest controllers. The amount spent on 1080 last year is enough to hire and train 840 young jobless people, buy them a ute and gun, pay their petrol and a wage of 60k to go out shooting and trapping possums, deer, pigs etc. The meat could then be used by the local community, maybe distributed by the foodbank or something. considering their lively hoods go down the drain if their herd is found to have TB (ie: must cull infected cattle, severe restrictions on stock movement) supporting the 1080 drops, (when they are carried out properly) for them is really a no brainer. they can probably thank the young jobless people shooting at anything that moves, and dumping their unwanted cats out in farmland for the diminishing morning chorus. i dont see any sane farmer agreeing to let a bunch of immature, reckless youngsters roam around their farms, with guns, shooting at things, because i can guarantee you that it wont just be the possums that get shot at. and as for the $60k, yea right! thats a better pay than most of the flamming farmers get!!! thats a damn good wage anywhere you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 i'm just saying thats what they could try, as a sensible alternative, using the same amount of moneys. i thought the farmers supported the drops too, which is why i was suprised by what they all said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze-dragon Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 yea but thats the thing, its not ALL farmers. a hand full yes, but ALL is like saying that ALL moari's agree that they deserve special seats in parliament, they dont ALL have the same opinions. doco's are really a waste of time, i can make a doco telling everyone how evil humans are, that they are simply a plague on this earth set to destroy every living thing. and that we should kill us all, some people may agree with me, but not everyone. im sorry but its very annoying when people moan and whinge about how bad DOC and MAF are, without thinking of the rest of the conservation they do. there are bound to be issues with any method they take to eradicate possums. a bunch of people crashing through the bush punctuated with the odd bang, blast and boom of their rifles may not kill many birds outright, but will certainly disrupt any kind of feeding, mating normal wild behaviour. then you've got the issue of the trampling of young saplings and the general disruption of all fauna and flora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 we are a plague on this earth i didn't mean all farmers think like that, i'm sure there's a wide range between both extremes, i just found it interesting that the ones who wrote in to the paper did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant N Posted September 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Bronze Dragon you need to get your facts right before you get so bolshie. Yes there is a lot of film of native birds eating dropped baits. 1080 poisoning is horrific and a truely nasty way to prolong a death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 1080 is an indescriminate killer sadly in todays money ruled world it is probably the most cost effective way of sorting out some of the pest species our native specis and habitat is a billion dollar earner for tourism but farming is a huge earner as well it is currently impossible to eradicate every exotic pest in nz here will always be big arguements for both sides and emotions can run high and emotive statements don't help a debate i disagree with the use of 1080 but understand why it is used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 1080 is the only viable solution right now. It isn't ideal, but that option simply doesn't exist at the moment. We have so much rugged country that it is just not feasable to get hunters into. And the hunters will only really work in places that have high densities. The last time bounties were put on possums people simply released more into forests closer to home. That is how and why they got into the previously unpossumed Northland. Older ways of dropping them were less than ideal, but now things can be done so accurately with GPS. Brodificoum etc build up in the environment and stay in the food chain. They are also more expensive so you get less death for your dollar. People jsut aren't aware of the terrible damage possums et al are doing, but cause we are USED to the damage. We are used to seeing forests with only 50% canopy cover, forests that you can see through for several metres in front of you. Our forests should be dense and dark, where you can't see the wood for the leaves. Seriously, the forests ecosystems are at risk of collape. The species changes going on are becoming so severe that the forests might be forever changed. A changed forest allows exotics into it, and once that happens, the ecosystem changes more and more, reducing habitat for the native birds and critters that do not live outside of native forest. No, 1080 is not ideal, but I am not going to sit around hoping they come up with something better while our forests and ecosystems fall apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze-dragon Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 ant can you please point out to me where in my previous posts i have said that 1080 doesn't kill birds? perhaps YOU should look at both sides of the story instead of just picking the one that TV told you to pick. I never said 1080 is the way to go, but like stella has said its the only viable solution right now. find me another way to kill off the possums without ANYTHING else being harmed, then start complaining about how terrible 1080 is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant N Posted September 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 1080 kills everything that breathes oxygen, it is still effective months after being dropped. It is NOT just used where accesss is difficult . It is on walking tracks, private property, and in our waterways. I have not seen anything on TV about it. I don't watch much TV. I have been in the bush. I read and listen to people that are out there, yes it has had a benificial short term effect in some places, but , to think that there is NO alternative to its indiscrimanate use is wrong. please, there is some mis-information and flawed "science" used by the very people who are profiting from this, and they are the ones charged with protecting OUR resourses. Apart from some "haka" bits in the film , there is some content that realy does make a good case for stopping the amount of this stuff we are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I have to tell you this Ant,one contrived amateur doco does not make you an expert on this topic.The Graf brothers make no secret that they are avid hunters and that is their main interest in this.As for the emotive bollocks about the silent dawn chorous etc how about taking a visit to pureora forest?You can listen to kokako which are one of the best for this,along with numerous tuis,bellbirds etc etc.They were not even present there before the use of this indiscriminant killer,now there is a healthy breeding populations present,can you explain that?I can,eradication of predators,stoats and more so egg eating possoms.The most vehement opposers of this stuff often have their own interests at heart such as hunting,possom skins,one even has a patent for a possom plucking machine so even someone of your brainpower should be able to figure it out?All this emotive scarmongering is just that,and you have fallen for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 i'd love to go to pureroa one day, kokakos are amazing. my opinions on 1080 are solely on its use around here, on farmland and small tracts of bush and pine plantations, since this is the only place i've seen it used firsthand. I know the drop they did last winter along the highway was awful, there were dead goats and birds the length of the highway in the ditches, and i know several farmers lost dogs on their property from it. So my arguement against it is that they shouldn't even think of using it in areas like that, where access for hunters is easy, much of it is falling on farms, and poisoness dead animals are left littering the highways. Surely in places like this trapping and shooting would be more appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 the risks to dogs are well publicised and responsible dog owners should be able to take the apropriate precautions for their valuable farm dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 yeah but they can't watch them constantly when their working, it only takes a second for them to lick something up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 have you heard of a muzzle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 yeah, but if its the sort of muzzle that lets them pant properly they can lick things up too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze-dragon Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 instead of wasting their time and money on making docos about how terrible 1080 is, maybe they could be useful and put their resources into find a more effective way of eradicating possums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos & Siran Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 that's what I was wondering, we've had selective herbicides for a long time, I wonder how hard it would be to create a selective pesticide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 that's what I was wondering, we've had selective herbicides for a long time, I wonder how hard it would be to create a selective pesticide? pretty hard to find one that would only kill one species, that is why they have been working on STDs so it is just reletive to possums and then it will need a trial period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 yeah that work they're doing with fertility control is interesting, if they can reach their goal of a possum-only std that makes them infertile it'll be great, humane and effective, as long as they don't build up a resistence to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 1080 is actually a natural herbicide, found in plants. A recent study found accidentally that puha and watercress contain decent amounts of 1080. However a human would have to eat about 9 tonnes for it to have an effect...! In Australia many of the plants have 1080 in them, as a deterrent to herbivores such as possums. In south eastern Australia the plants have a much higher amount of it, and the possums there have actually evolved an immunity to it (remembering that in plants it is a deterrent, not killing the animals). The possums introduced into NZ come from north eastern Australia where the plants have less 1080 in them. Apparently we would not be able to use 1080 against our possums if they were from the southern group. With the puha and watercress thing, they grew a whole lot of watercress and puha in tubs. They dumped an awful lot of 1080 into the water then tested the leaves (including the control ones). Apparently the levels were slightly elevated for a short time (can't remember how long), then it went back to normal. The amount they were exposed to was way higher than would happen naturally, and the elevated levels would still have been perfectly edible by a human. It is quite possible that other native plants here have 1080 in them. Possums definitely have preferences of what leaves to eat and further study could reveal if these plants actually contain 1080 or indeed any other toxins that could be used against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 6, 2009 Report Share Posted September 6, 2009 I agree with Stella and Repto, its not ideal but until someone comes up with something better then its best to use the 1080 and keep the possum population under control. They have been using cyanide in the pine forest where I go mountain biking 2-3 times a week and I'm amazed at the number of dead possums there are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I'm also on the side of using 1080 at the moment, however I think air drops should be narrowed to more remote areas and not used anywhere near farmlands. These areas are more readily available to planting baited traps instead. Also, its actually extrememly difficult to manufacture a highly specific poison that only targets one species. 1080 interferes with the citric acid cycle which every MAMMAL (+other animals and insects) uses. It is easiest creating insecticides because they can target multiple metabolic pathways which aren't present in other animals. Someday they will come up with specific genetic poisons that attack on a species level...but even then not everyone will agree on their use. But 'whiners' should put in the hard yards them selves...go to uni, learn about biochemistry, genetics, physiology...and try coming up with the solution yourself before they criticize the scientists that are working hard and trying to come up with the best solution of the problem currently available. It is doing its job irradicating deer, rabbits, rats, and possems, which are ALL pests. To help avoid affects on birds, farm animals and pets, it is the method of delivery that needs to be adjusted. Its one things for people to look at how this poison works and think its barrbaric but just because a kitty cat is cute and fluffy doesn't make a world of difference for the native bird its caught, tortured to death, and then dragged home. We just don't look at it the same way because people like their 'invasive' pets and wouldn't ever think or irradicating them or even thinking of them prowling the neighbourhood as a potentially bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.